Red Mosquito

Something I've noticed about Bonds...

He always used to talk about how the media made him miserable, and at a certain point they went out of their way to do so. And the media was always like "Bonds is just a huge fucking jerk and everyone who knows him totally hates him." But ever since he's retired and the media has been effectively out of his life, every time he pops up for something he's totally pleasant, and the stories from people who have interacted with him randomly over the past few years always talk about how friendly and personable he is. In fact, he seems to be buzzing along in his post-baseball life in grand fashion. I wonder how much that irritates dudes like Rick Reilly who can't write more than 500 words about any subject without talking about how much they hate Bonds.

Lament wrote:Something I've noticed about Bonds...

He always used to talk about how the media made him miserable, and at a certain point they went out of their way to do so. And the media was always like "Bonds is just a huge fucking jerk and everyone who knows him totally hates him." But ever since he's retired and the media has been effectively out of his life, every time he pops up for something he's totally pleasant, and the stories from people who have interacted with him randomly over the past few years always talk about how friendly and personable he is. In fact, he seems to be buzzing along in his post-baseball life in grand fashion. I wonder how much that irritates dudes like Rick Reilly who can't write more than 500 words about any subject without talking about how much they hate Bonds.

Bonds was a hall of famer before *73. I really have no problem with it if he was voted in.

I will now leave work, go get some beer and hop back on here and talk shit with you wonderful folks.

Barry Bonds once looked me in the eyes and smiled when I was watching BP finish up at a giants-Astros game in 97. I've never forgotten that and always have resented the beating his character took from the writers. Now, maybe he is an asshole, but he made my night that time and I've always remembered it.

numbers wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

numbers wrote:Well, maybe Cap Anson wasnt a dick to the media, which is pretty much what the morality clause is all about.

Which makes no sense because Bonds won like 35 MVP awards and they vote on it.

They couldnt not vote for Bonds most of those times, but there are times where the MVP vote is affected by the medias personal opinions of people. Mo Vaughn winning over Albert Belle in 95 is an example.

Bonds would have won in 1991 & 2000 as well if he wasn't a "bad guy."

BigRedLedbetter wrote:Bonds was a hall of famer before *73. I really have no problem with it if he was voted in.

Most accounts of his steroid use say he started it after the 1999 season. His numbers up to that point include 445 home runs, 460 stolen bases, & three MVP awards. I know Tony Gwynn & Ken Griffey Jr. will always be the popular choices, but Bonds was the best offensive player of the 90s by far in my mind.

Lament wrote:

numbers wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

numbers wrote:Well, maybe Cap Anson wasnt a dick to the media, which is pretty much what the morality clause is all about.

Which makes no sense because Bonds won like 35 MVP awards and they vote on it.

They couldnt not vote for Bonds most of those times, but there are times where the MVP vote is affected by the medias personal opinions of people. Mo Vaughn winning over Albert Belle in 95 is an example.

Bonds would have won in 1991 & 2000 as well if he wasn't a "bad guy."

BigRedLedbetter wrote:Bonds was a hall of famer before *73. I really have no problem with it if he was voted in.

Most accounts of his steroid use say he started it after the 1999 season. His numbers up to that point include 445 home runs, 460 stolen bases, & three MVP awards. I know Tony Gwynn & Ken Griffey Jr. will always be the popular choices, but Bonds was the best offensive player of the 90s by far in my mind.

People like to omit how great Bonds was pre *73 to make their case against him look better. I have no affiliation with Bonds whatsoever but he is far and away the best player I've ever seen play and I will be 34 this fall.

As for Mo Vaughn....I always liked the guy as a kid. Caught a home run ball off him in 1999 when he was a Halo. But Belle got screwed in 1995. Belle or Randy Johnson should have won the AL MVP in 95.

In his prime, Albert Belle was nothing short of devastating. History has been cruel to him.

I like to remember him as Joey

Belle was a monster in the mid 90s, in a good way(personal stuff aside.) Other than Bonds in his big head era, Belle is the most feared player I ever remember since I started watching baseball in 91/92. He struck absolute fear into everyone he played.

I was playing right field one game against him and he hit the longest HR over my head that I've ever seen hit

People always like to talk about when Buck Showalter walked Bonds with the bases loaded as an example of his prowess & the way he changed the game. Everyone always leaves out that it happened in...May of 1998. When the dude was still skinny and stealing bases to go with his home runs.

I suppose the irony of it all is that part of why people forget that Bonds was still mind-bendingly great even after the 1993 MVP was that his stellar numbers were overshadowed by dudes who were juiced out of their minds. Dude had a fucking 40-40 season in 1996 and finished FIFTH in the MVP voting. FORTY FUCKING FORTY. He almost had another one in 1997 (40-37) and finished fifth in the MVP voting again, even though he carried the Giants to a division title. And both those season he led the league in walks (151 and 145) too. Hell, he led the league in walks (and OPS) five times before the turn of the century (and intentional walks seven times). Led in runs created every year from 1990-1996 except for 1994. Scroll through his baseball-reference page, and even if you ignore his stats from 2000 and beyond, the numbers are just sick. Especially when it comes to advanced statistics. NL leader in offensive win percentage, win probability added, base-out wins added, base-out runs added, in 1990, 91, 92, 93, 95, & 96.

doug rr wrote:I was playing right field one game against him and he hit the longest HR over my head that I've ever seen hit

It was geauxing geauxing gone?

Going to baseball games in the 90s, the three guys who I most remember just being totally in awe of them at the plate were Bonds, Belle, and Frank Thomas. I saw all three of them hit shots that just seemed incomprehensible. Bonds and Belle's legends I guess grew in my eyes in part because of the situations I saw them perform in. I have distinct stories of both of hitting shots into the stratosphere while getting buried by hecklers. No stories like that for Thomas, but that's cause if you heckled Big Frank on the south side you were probably getting beer dumped on you.

Since I've been rambling about Bonds, I'll tell the Belle one...

At one point my dad worked for a company who's founder had been a Sox batboy in the Bill Veeck days. Veeck befriended him, and long story short, he had owned the four seats right behind the Sox dugout closest to the plate for decades. My dad was able to use them a few times. There was this cranky old lady who owned the seats behind my dad's company. She must have owned them since like the fifties as well. And man, did she fucking HATE Albert Belle. Terry Bevington too, but, I mean, everyone hated Terry Bevington. But anyways, she would just rag on Belle all game long. "YOU FUCKING SUCK ALBERT!" "GO BACK TO CLEVELAND!" "HOW DOES IT FEEL TO STEAL THAT KINDA MONEY FROM REINSDORF YOU WORTHLESS BUM!" And we were all within like a six foot radius, so you know he heard every damn word (for every home game of the season I'm sure). Anyways, I swear to God, he's in the on deck circle, and as he gets ready to walk to the plate, the only time I ever saw him do this, he turns around and shoots a glare at this woman. He then walks up to the plate, and puts the first strike he sees almost to the walkway behind the left field bleachers. It sounded like a gun being fired. It was fucking incredible. Me and my friends just sat there in awe. When he came back to the dugout, he shot the woman behind the same exact glare he gave he before he walked to the plate. It was absolutely beautiful, and one of my favorite in-person baseball memories ever.

Lament wrote: At one point my dad worked for a company who's founder had been a Sox batboy in the Bill Veeck days. Veeck befriended him, and long story short, he had owned the four seats right behind the Sox dugout closest to the plate for decades. My dad was able to use them a few times. There was this cranky old lady who owned the seats behind my dad's company. She must have owned them since like the fifties as well. And man, did she fucking HATE Albert Belle. Terry Bevington too, but, I mean, everyone hated Terry Bevington. But anyways, she would just rag on Belle all game long. "YOU FUCKING SUCK ALBERT!" "GO BACK TO CLEVELAND!" "HOW DOES IT FEEL TO STEAL THAT KINDA MONEY FROM REINSDORF YOU WORTHLESS BUM!" And we were all within like a six foot radius, so you know he heard every damn word (for every home game of the season I'm sure). Anyways, I swear to God, he's in the on deck circle, and as he gets ready to walk to the plate, the only time I ever saw him do this, he turns around and shoots a glare at this woman. He then walks up to the plate, and puts the first strike he sees almost to the walkway behind the left field bleachers. It sounded like a gun being fired. It was fucking incredible. Me and my friends just sat there in awe. When he came back to the dugout, he shot the woman behind the same exact glare he gave he before he walked to the plate. It was absolutely beautiful, and one of my favorite in-person baseball memories ever.

Wonderful story haha.

I saw the 95 Indians play live a few times. Those lineups were scary good.

F*CKING 95 INDIANS!!!!

Bammer wrote:F*CKING 95 INDIANS!!!!

Lots of guys on that team I liked growing up (Orel Hershiser, Omar Vizquel, Dave Winfield, Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray, etc) but man were they easy to hate for some reason.

Because they kicked everyone's ass all the time. Until they were in the World Series, of course.

numbers wrote:Because they kicked everyone's ass all the time. Until they were in the World Series, of course.

I was so happy they lost in the WS. My best friend is a die hard Braves fan. His daughter is named Avery (after Steve). He still has that team poster and a David Justice cardboard cut out in his basement.

That series was great. Glavine pitched one of the best games of all time in game 6. I was happy for ATL after being so close in 91 and 92 (more so 91). We have debates all the time though about 1994. I think that was Montreal's year. Fucking strike.

MVP('s)?

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mvp-c ... hernandez/

Bammer wrote:MVP('s)?

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mvp-c ... hernandez/

Kershaw I could see.

Seattle would have to make the playoffs I'd think. It's Trout's to lose. Mayyyyyyyyyyybe Donaldson? Mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe.

Has a pitcher ever won it without his team making the playoffs?

BigRedLedbetter wrote:We have debates all the time though about 1994. I think that was Montreal's year.

My boys were gonna finish the job in '94.