Red Mosquito

Kevin Davis wrote:What I like about Tuolumne's post is how immediately and thoroughly it bears out its opening comment.

I don't get your point, please explain.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:Are people that desperate for new PJ related material? These songs are solid tunes but that's about it.

These two songs have been more exciting to me than the first glimpses we got of S/T and Backspacer. Now I love both of those albums. Especially Backspacer. I'm much more on Stip's side of the spectrum when it comes to that album and I don't apologize for it.

But these two new Stone tracks, tracks that I didn't know were in the works and came out of nowhere, are really striking a nerve with me. They're exciting. They're eliciting a visceral response. It has nothing to do with expectation or desperation for new material. The music is just hitting for me.

This shit is GOOOOOOD.

i also think they're pretty good indeed, especially Moonlander, but since i have probably zero expectation for Stone's solo output, i'm just looking forward hearing more of it and i'm assured to be pleasantly surprised. when it come to PJ, they have to measure up against songs and albums that are among my lifelong top-20 so, while it's not fair to a certain extent, i know they have that potential ingrained in their collective chemistry to come up with something that transcends enthusiasm - and that's why i'm usually more exited by PJ's new material than by Stone's or whoever.

Tuolumne wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:What I like about Tuolumne's post is how immediately and thoroughly it bears out its opening comment.

I don't get your point, please explain.

If you really think that what critics of modern PJ want is more grandiosity, then your opening statement about how easily you confuse rings loud and clear.

I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

You should head over to the "Pearl Jam Videos" thread. Everybody seems pretty positive about PJ there. Even Spenno shows some excitement!

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

That's because 98% of the videos in that thread are pre-2003.

I'm pretty sure people here are fans, they're just PJ10 fans not PJ20 fans.

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

I'm glad I read to the end of the page before I started to reply

What I'm finding very interesting these days is how perception of the music can effect opinions. This Moonlander experiment is interesting. No expectations at all, release one new song a week, people slowly digest and form opinions; maybe this is a more natural way to experience music, who has 45-60 minutes of free time when it's hard enough staying away from my phone for 10 minutes to check out something new? This versus high expectations and an entire album being digested at once, requiring someone to focus a significant amount of time instead of doing something else. There are so many variables here which are not directly related to the music itself but in how the audience digests music. Yet it all effects how the music exists in someone's mind. I can't help but think it plays a major role and how an album of music is percieved.

Why do we rise up?

WHYYYY

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

I think most deliberate attempts to "return to form" or tread old sounds like Avocado and Backspacer have inherently less artistic merit. How can it not? You are not really creating new sounds and ideas, you are simply trying to tweak an already established sound.

Also, were has the quality control been? Avocado in particular there seemed to be none. From the production (in general) to the art work to Ed's tossed off vocals, it lacked any sort of cohesiveness. How could a song like Inside Job pass the smell test? That Life Wasted video is something I would expect from a high school art class not Pearl Jam. How does it pass any sort of quality control standard.

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

Great Post. 100% on board with this.

VinylGuy wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

Great Post. 100% on board with this.

Other than Ed's voice being in decline I agree, but then I dont have a big problem with his voice now.

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

Objectively, Eddie Vedder has stated numerous times that he put less effort and thought into the lyrics and music for Backspacer due to having less time now he has a family. So you can draw portraits all your life, then decide to do a stickman and it holds as much artistic merit as your previous work because you chose to do it?

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

oh we're fans alright.

this is just the derelict section

WtOB? wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

Objectively, Eddie Vedder has stated numerous times that he put less effort and thought into the lyrics and music for Backspacer due to having less time now he has a family. So you can draw portraits all your life, then decide to do a stickman and it holds as much artistic merit as your previous work because you chose to do it?

I think that is an over simplification of what Vedder has talked about with his approach to the Backspacer material.

Strat wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

Objectively, Eddie Vedder has stated numerous times that he put less effort and thought into the lyrics and music for Backspacer due to having less time now he has a family. So you can draw portraits all your life, then decide to do a stickman and it holds as much artistic merit as your previous work because you chose to do it?

I think that is an over simplification of what Vedder has talked about with his approach to the Backspacer material.

even if that wasn't the case there were also other albums that other members of the band were less invested in. Jeff and no code, for instance

stip wrote:

Strat wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

Objectively, Eddie Vedder has stated numerous times that he put less effort and thought into the lyrics and music for Backspacer due to having less time now he has a family. So you can draw portraits all your life, then decide to do a stickman and it holds as much artistic merit as your previous work because you chose to do it?

I think that is an over simplification of what Vedder has talked about with his approach to the Backspacer material.

even if that wasn't the case there were also other albums that other members of the band were less invested in. Jeff and no code, for instance

Let's be real though, who's song-writing has a bigger impact on the overall sound of a Pearl Jam record, Jeff or Ed?

turned2black wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

turned2black wrote:

bluestate wrote:I sometimes wonder if there are any pearl jam fans on RM or if I've just mistakenly entered the wrong forum.

I'm still a pretty big fan, I just don't like the last two albums. I think if you look at the band objectively there has been a pretty nasty artistic decline. I wear PJ t-shirts a couple times a week, I'm a member of Ten Club and patrol a PJ message board. What else do I need to do to be a Pearl Jam fan?

While I'm with you on preferring everything that came before Avocado, I think it's problematic to say there has objectively been an artistic decline. There's been, objectively, a decrease in output of new music, and there's been, objectively, a decrease in touring, but Avocado and Backspacer are both very deliberate records that a lot of people really like. I don't believe in any objective measure you could apply to those albums to conclude that they're of lesser artistic merit than anything that came before.

I think most deliberate attempts to "return to form" or tread old sounds like Avocado and Backspacer have inherently less artistic merit. How can it not? You are not really creating new sounds and ideas, you are simply trying to tweak an already established sound.

what old sounds was backspacer treading?

turned2black wrote: Also, were has the quality control been? Avocado in particular there seemed to be none. From the production (in general) to the art work to Ed's tossed off vocals, it lacked any sort of cohesiveness. How could a song like Inside Job pass the smell test? That Life Wasted video is something I would expect from a high school art class not Pearl Jam. How does it pass any sort of quality control standard.

I think the life wasted stuff (and the inside art in general) was done by some reasonably famous sculptor, wasn't it? Inside Job was a very personal song written by a core member of the band. Its inclusion explains itself, and it is no more out of place than mankind. And the production on S/T, while not aging well, was also a reflection of a deliberate choice. It was a breath of fresh air for many people after the subdued and watered down feel of Riot Act. And I believe Riot Act was the record where Eddie just came in and did just one or two vocal takes for a song and left it there.