Red Mosquito

Bi_3 wrote:

Anders wrote:

tree_ wrote:do not negotiate with terrorists

What is your solution to the Israeli-Palestine conflict?

Gaza goes to Israel, Israel retreats from all settlements in "Area C" and that becomes the Palestinian state. Jerusalem is shared under Israeli security.

Thank you for your suggestion.

However the Gaza strip has a 2022 estimate population of 2,375,259. The West Bank has a 2021 estimate population of 2,949,246. Gaza is a very large part of the Palestinian people (that are living in Palestinian lands).

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Anders wrote:

tree_ wrote:do not negotiate with terrorists

What is your solution to the Israeli-Palestine conflict?

Gaza goes to Israel, Israel retreats from all settlements in "Area C" and that becomes the Palestinian state. Jerusalem is shared under Israeli security.

But dont Palestinians believe its their right to some holy land in Israel?

Sorry, I said the wrong thing with "Area C". I meant bring the West Bank back to 1967 borders as the sovereign state "Palestine" in exchange for the Palestinians abandoning Gaza to Israel. This results in more land and borders not entirely blockaded for the Palestinians and refugees in Jordan can easily return.

Apparently they have also found new gas resources outside of Gaza.

BurtReynolds wrote:Does this Palestinian state have any resources with which to survive on? Outside of tourism and foreign aid I don't know how anyone in Israel survives on their own (besides recently discovered oil reserves offshore. Will a state of Palestine have access to any of that?)

Casinos, baby. Though I guess Muslims probably can’t.

dimejinky99 wrote:

Anders wrote:Although at some point this current conflict will probably end, it is very difficult to see long term solutions that all parts will accept, that will put an end to the trouble.

A two state solution seemed the most likely a long time. Israel has done more to ruin that than the Palestinians.

Maybe a one state solution, with Hamas outlawed is the way forward. Every law abiding citizen able to live in peace. The Jews must be guaranteed an important place in the government of the state, since there is a high likelihood, that Muslims will outnumber them in the long run. Current homes and land ownership must be accepted by all. A united army and police force.

In the short term, I think this is still far from over. Hamas is still in power in Gaza, still holding hostages. A ground invasion is probably the only thing that can change that.

I’ve posted clips in this thread over years and years showing ordinary Palestinians being thrown out of their houses or watching their farms and olive groves burned by IDF and as official Israeli policy. Removed so the property can be taken over by Jewish settlers. Who are usually American as it happens.
They will not be happy until they have eradicated all Palestinians completely.
It’s really that simple.
As with Putin, he wants Ukraine. But he wants it completely without any Ukrainians in it.

But somehow what he’s doing is an evil and Israel is just fine to get on doing exactly the same thing.

I think the disconnect for a lot of people with this comparison is that Ukrainians aren’t actively going inside Russia to shoot up music festivals and take women and children hostage. This isn’t a one sided affair. Why isn’t Hamas releasing the hostages?

Welp, two of the hostages, an 80 year old grandmother and her 13 year old granddaughter, were just found dead

Does Gaza and West Bank have any special significance to Palestinians, or was it just where they were herded to after the Zionist took over the rest?

It's difficult to determine who has the moral high ground here (and frankly it's a mistake to look at this through a moralistic lens). But as someone who resides in Confederate land currently occupied by foreign Yankee devils, I can sympathize with people claiming it all as their homeland.

Palestinians make more babies than Israelis. In a few decades that's how this ends. Until then we'll get this.

‘Gaza is not an island. History did not begin on 7 October. The media framing of the “elimination of Hamas” and the “Israeli war on Gaza” erases Palestine and the Palestinians.

”The War on Palestine” by Jadaliyya Co-Editors

buff.ly/3ttmsc9

bada wrote:Palestinians make more babies than Israelis. In a few decades that's how this ends. Until then we'll get this.

Palestinian children are Hamas or Hamas-like radicals in waiting?

BurtReynolds wrote:Does Gaza and West Bank have any special significance to Palestinians, or was it just where they were herded to after the Zionist took over the rest?

I do not think there is any special significance. Palestinians lived all throughout Palestine until the late forties. Hence the saying 'from the river to the sea'. If Palestine had been treated like the other Arab areas post-WWI, the State of Palestine today would probably encompass all of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza (but not Golan?).

spike wrote:

bada wrote:Palestinians make more babies than Israelis. In a few decades that's how this ends. Until then we'll get this.

Palestinian children are Hamas or Hamas-like radicals in waiting?

Israel isn't making enough new people to replace and eventually take care of the old people which is what is needed for a functioning society. They will have no choice but to make nice at some point down the line just to exist. Its just demographics. They won't have any other population to tap. Nice try though.

The Argonaut wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Does Gaza and West Bank have any special significance to Palestinians, or was it just where they were herded to after the Zionist took over the rest?

I do not think there is any special significance. Palestinians lived all throughout Palestine until the late forties. Hence the saying 'from the river to the sea'. If Palestine had been treated like the other Arab areas post-WWI, the State of Palestine today would probably encompass all of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza (but not Golan?).

Goes back a few thousand years further:

Bi_3 wrote:Though it skips many of the effects of the British mandate, this is a good primer for those unfamiliar with the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict without taking sides.

bada wrote:

spike wrote:

bada wrote:Palestinians make more babies than Israelis. In a few decades that's how this ends. Until then we'll get this.

Palestinian children are Hamas or Hamas-like radicals in waiting?

Israel isn't making enough new people to replace and eventually take care of the old people which is what is needed for a functioning society. They will have no choice but to make nice at some point down the line just to exist. Its just demographics. They won't have any other population to tap. Nice try though.

If one group of people continues to control the wealth, the arable land, the infrastructure, the military power, and the backing of American politicians, it's not hard to "make nice at some point" by simply offering second-class citizenship or a slightly less degrading and devastating version of degrading and devastating poverty. Demographics be damned. You're envisioning that there will be so many more Palestinians than Jews that a one-state democracy will just be inevitable and necessary? I don't see it. Maybe more work visas and an easier time crossing the militarized borders. Or a right to vote on local issues but full citizenship still out of reach. Evidence for this scenario being possible: it's the current state of affairs, no? Taking political power requires political solutions, up to and including revolution. Demographics is no revolution.

That better not be a Prager U video.

I wonder how the Canaanites feel about all of this.

The Argonaut wrote:

bada wrote:

spike wrote:

bada wrote:Palestinians make more babies than Israelis. In a few decades that's how this ends. Until then we'll get this.

Palestinian children are Hamas or Hamas-like radicals in waiting?

Israel isn't making enough new people to replace and eventually take care of the old people which is what is needed for a functioning society. They will have no choice but to make nice at some point down the line just to exist. Its just demographics. They won't have any other population to tap. Nice try though.

If one group of people continues to control the wealth, the arable land, the infrastructure, the military power, and the backing of American politicians, it's not hard to "make nice at some point" by simply offering second-class citizenship or a slightly less degrading and devastating version of degrading and devastating poverty. Demographics be damned. You're envisioning that there will be so many more Palestinians than Jews that a one-state democracy will just be inevitable and necessary? I don't see it. Maybe more work visas and an easier time crossing the militarized borders. Or a right to vote on local issues but full citizenship still out of reach. Evidence for this scenario being possible: it's the current state of affairs, no? Taking political power requires political solutions, up to and including revolution. Demographics is no revolution.

Yes inevitable one state. I understand its not sexy and wont sell many tee shirts.