Red Mosquito

Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

wease wrote:Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

Because Weinstein was one of the most powerful figures in Hollywood, which those other guys were not. If Weinstein can go, anyone can.

wease wrote:Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

Weinstein's victims are famous white girls.

durdencommatyler wrote:I kinda love She & Him's version where they switch the male and female parts of that song. It was a fascinating way to turn it on its head and reexamine the narrative. I love how everyone thought it was so sweet and funny and charming when the woman sang those creepy lines. Super interesting cultural experiment.

I have this amazing cover version of the Yeah, Yeah, Yeah's song Maps, imagined entirely inside my head. Mark Lanegan is the voice I hear and he turns it from fragile love song into the creepiest stalker song without changing the lyrics.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

wease wrote:Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

Weinstein's victims are famous white girls.

Yeah, this is the right answer.

Pretty sure Verm had the right answer, actually.

I think the more interesting question is how come everyone instantly believed and sided with Anthony Rapp (a white man) but there still a ton of people who accuse these women of engaging in witch hunts and smear campaigns against their male attackers? Spacey is automatically, without question, a villain and pedophile but wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... these women? No way all these allegations could possibly be true; these women are just looking for a payout or their 10 minutes of fame.

And the same is true of Cosby. Women had been accusing him for decades and everyone ignored them. Then Hannibal Burress makes a few comments and all of a sudden Cosby is the devil and has his day in court.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

wease wrote:Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

Weinstein's victims are famous white girls.

Yeah, this is the right answer.

Pretty sure Verm had the right answer, actually.

I think the more interesting question is how come everyone instantly believed and sided with Anthony Rapp (a white man) but there still a ton of people who accuse these women of engaging in witch hunts and smear campaigns against their male attackers? Spacey is automatically, without question, a villain and pedophile but wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... these women? No way all these allegations could possibly be true; these women are just looking for a payout or their 10 minutes of fame.

I know we won't agree on this, but I see an adult pressuring a child for sex as quite different than "he touched my knee". I am not saying any form of sexual assault is OK. It never is. I want to be clear on that: it should never be done and those who speak up about it should not have their motive impugned. But it's like a bully intentionally bumping into someone vs. sucker punching them. The acts are quite different and should elicit different response.

Bi_3 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

wease wrote:Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

Weinstein's victims are famous white girls.

Yeah, this is the right answer.

Pretty sure Verm had the right answer, actually.

I think the more interesting question is how come everyone instantly believed and sided with Anthony Rapp (a white man) but there still a ton of people who accuse these women of engaging in witch hunts and smear campaigns against their male attackers? Spacey is automatically, without question, a villain and pedophile but wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute... these women? No way all these allegations could possibly be true; these women are just looking for a payout or their 10 minutes of fame.

I know we won't agree on this, but I see an adult pressuring a child for sex as quite different than "he touched my knee". I am not saying any form of sexual assault is OK. It never is. I want to be clear on that: it should never be done and those who speak up about it should not have their motive impugned. But it's like a bully intentionally bumping into someone vs. sucker punching them. The acts are quite different and should elicit different response.

Sure. I respect what you're saying (and while I take issue with parts of your point, I'm going to move on to the larger, broader point I was originally trying to make). But then let's look at Woody Allen. Had a man or a boy made those same accusations I have to believe they would have been believed and taken seriously from the beginning. I think my point still holds here.

Yeah Verm had the right answer.

durdencommatyler wrote: Sure. I respect what you're saying (and while I take issue with parts of your point, I'm going to move on to the larger, broader point I was originally trying to make). But then let's look at Woody Allen. Had a man or a boy made those same accusations I have to believe they would have been believed and taken seriously from the beginning. I think my point still holds here.

Ah, now I see where you we going with the previous comments. I didn't get that at all from what you said previously.


As for this, I think it's hard to say. I would guess that if Woody Allen happened today it would be different. The rate of social change has been pretty amazing over the last decade, especially with regards to the struggles women still face daily.*

*I am not implying the struggle is over


But I am interested in Wease's point early, asking how all of sudden Weinstein was vulnerable. It's not like Rose McGowan is a household name. Maybe because of the success in taking down Cosby. Maybe because of the failure to take down Trump. If someone has a good link on this I would be interested.

wease wrote:Why did it take Weinstein getting busted to make this the catalyst for all these people to come out with grievances? Why not Cosby? Or O’Reilly? What made it suddenly ok for all these people to come forward when before Weinstein it didn’t seem to be?

Seems to be that Weinstein was like the tiger in the room and everyone’s afraid to be the first one make even a peep cos he’s destroy you and your career if you did. . But as soon as someone did they all joined in.


He had his sexual misconduct covered in his contract and payscales for payouts depending on severity of allegation. That tells its own story.

It helps that he was a rabid left winger in bed with the Clintons. Gives the right wingers an excuse to pile on. And the more accusations made against Hollywood elites, the better.

This stuff could be as simple as two people sharing a coffee on a break and one is telling a really funny story and touching the other ones Arm or knee as they laugh at the punchline. Say like the Dustin thing. Simple normal human interaction that some failed actress sees a wave rising to have her moment by exploiting the one encounter with a celebrity she ever had.

Thats what were gonna see in these cases. Or probably are already.

If you’ve waited years or even decades to tell your story and suddenly you’re part of a social media victim wave, I have trouble believing you

The range is large from pedophilia, to rape (at worst probably violent or drugged rape, though I'll clearly agree any rape is terrible), to blatant abuse of power in a sexual setting, to insensitive comments from someone in a position of appeared power, to a drunken slap on a butt or insensitive comments from a regular guy to a regular girl, and onwards to someone trying to come on to someone (flirting) that is misunderstood for any number of reasons, and in the end even false accusations (perhaps based on regret).

A come on from one person can be considered terrible, while nearly the exact same words and actions is wanted from someone else. For instance, nearly every girl I've ever dated have always said they think the guy should make the first move, and should do the first kiss without asking first (I always ask, get permission, and all is fine. But later I typically get criticized for having asked). I've also seen guys get wrongly accused, or various sorts of silly behaviour from all kinds of people, that are judged in many different ways. So it is possible to fall into a bit of a trap where anyone accused of anything is a villain, no matter how large or small. I think that is a serious and important subject, that should not be easily dismissed.

However, it's not really possible to set a line in the sand. We clearly need to listen to those that accuse people, especially of the more serious instances. It doesn't matter that Rapp is a white man (never did) when he accused Spacey, or Cosby black, or Hoffman highly respected, or Weinstein powerful. If you are truly guilty, you deserve the punishment.

Michael Jackson’s entire life was ruined by two of the same baseless accusations.

The first accusers father commited suicide after his death and admitted he made the whole thing up and forced his since to go along with it.

The second accusers laughed out of court for being obvious scammers with no case at all to answer.

In these two cases both accusers just wanted money. In any true case with a victim looking for justice, it would never be about money. It would be about destroying and forever imprisoning the abuser.


So let’s see where all these Weinsteins and Spaceys end up after court.

THere are a couple of recent accusations that cross the line into witch hunt territory.

Adam Blampied, who runs a popular wrestling blog/youtube channel had to quit over by an accusation that he "used his power to guilt a 19 year old into showing her tits." He basically drunkenly begged some ho at a bar to send him pics of her tits, then she did but felt bad about it later and claimed victimhood. Sorry, doesn't cut it. Now, he did have a girlfriend at the time, but apparently she didn't care. He may be a bit sleazy, but he isn't a sex predator. I would feel a bit sorry for him, but he issued the most pathetic, groveling apology imaginable on Twitter, to the extent he may be trying to milk it for something himself.

Another is the owner of a popular SJW gamer site, NEOGAF. Some girl went with him to New Orleans, expressly to get drunk and party, then went to the same hotel room where she claims he jumped in the shower with her without her consent (then she left without issue). She deleted her comment, and later it comes out that she dumped her boyfriend and had a relationship with this guy afterwards, but the damage was already done. The site went up in flames for a while and most of the mods and many long time users quit, probably costing him millions of dollars if the rumors are true. Again, hard to feel sorry for the piece of shit when for years he promoted the very behavior that was used against him (seriously, they would proudly ban anyone who even slightly deviated from their groupthink.) Radical feminists and rightwing gamergaters were both happy to pile on.