Red Mosquito

WtOB? wrote:The "2010 watch it go to fire" line pretty much cements there being no optimism that things are going to get better in any way, and in fact that it will only get worse.

Blenheim Augustine wrote:

stip wrote:your emotional response isn't really right or wrong. you own your experience of the art. And I agree that the lyrics have to be understood part and parcel with the music, the delivery, and all the rest (in fact, I say as much a few places in my longer post above). But the lyrics are still part of the overall package and, if the artist takes the lyrics seriously, are also (despite the ambiguities that can and do still exist in them) often the easiest way to get a read on what a song is about since words have more precise meaning and less interpretive nuance than music. this isn't always the case, but it often is, especially with pearl jam, and songs where this isn't the case (think Got Some, for instance) the lack of importance given to the lyrics is itself significant--a signal about how the song should be understood.

The above is why I hear the songs the way I do. KD asked why I interpret a record the way I do. This is why. It is in response to the way he understands the album.

I'm referring more to your thematic analysis rather than the idea that lyrics aren't important, I don't think I said that. And if we are to discuss themes, I'm not convinced that Pearl Jam exhibit a "broader sense of engagement" in their key songs to that point - I don't know how stuff like Go, Animal, Black, Jeremy, Daughter, RVM, Last Exit, Not for You, Corduroy, Betterman, Off He Goes and In My Tree are about engagement - for the most part they are all about escape or being alone.

Blenheim Augustine wrote:

WtOB? wrote:The "2010 watch it go to fire" line pretty much cements there being no optimism that things are going to get better in any way, and in fact that it will only get worse.

Unless you know what Juvenalian satire is.

stip wrote:

Blenheim Augustine wrote:

WtOB? wrote:The "2010 watch it go to fire" line pretty much cements there being no optimism that things are going to get better in any way, and in fact that it will only get worse.

Unless you know what Juvenalian satire is.

You are right, there is probably still some part of the song that is holding out the possibility of things getting better, but it's a sliver. I don't think he'd take that bet.

Again, my interpretation of that song is heavily indebted to Ishmael and Story of B. There is a Cassandra like quality to this, that tries to cover up its own desperation in satire. It prophecies exactly how it is all gonna end knowing that the odds of anyone listening are slim, but cares enough to keep preaching anyway.

digster wrote:I just think you can't really divorce the lyrics from how the song sounds. It's an absolutely ridiculous song. I don't know if they're really banging you over the head with "get it, SARCASM. It's really not evolution;" it's not that overt, but the fact that they were willing to turn subject matter that could conceivably be so dire into a joke says more about where they were at while making that album than anything else.

dimejinky99 wrote:Ed did say at the time that he loves DTE cos it sounds almost like someone else is singing it. Whether that's to infer a satire or sarcasm that was never present up to that point and suggest they were doing something new or whether he just meant vocally, I'm not sure.

It's a great song either way.

nightmareblack0206 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Ed did say at the time that he loves DTE cos it sounds almost like someone else is singing it. Whether that's to infer a satire or sarcasm that was never present up to that point and suggest they were doing something new or whether he just meant vocally, I'm not sure.

It's a great song either way.

stip wrote:Again, my interpretation of that song is heavily indebted to Ishmael and Story of B. There is a Cassandra like quality to this, that tries to cover up its own desperation in satire. It prophecies exactly how it is all gonna end knowing that the odds of anyone listening are slim, but cares enough to keep preaching anyway.

Blenheim Augustine wrote:

stip wrote:Again, my interpretation of that song is heavily indebted to Ishmael and Story of B. There is a Cassandra like quality to this, that tries to cover up its own desperation in satire. It prophecies exactly how it is all gonna end knowing that the odds of anyone listening are slim, but cares enough to keep preaching anyway.

I agree with the Quinn stuff - it is an obvious nod and Ed did use that "the world's ending and we have the best seat in the house" in the Avocado EPK so I'm probably off base. I just think that you can write songs like that to send up or bring attention to a certain type of person / mentality without believing that the pessimistic outcome is a forgone conclusion.