Red Mosquito

Bi_3 wrote:

I showed this to my wife and she found it very funny

You know, it's funny... as much af I love Brie, I had no real intention of seeing this in theaters. But because of all this bullshit, I'm absolutely going to.

Congrats, idiots. Your nonsense has turned me into a fucking Marvel fan. Eat shit and bow to the brilliance of real cinema!!!

avengers is on cable!

durdencommatyler wrote:You know, it's funny... as much af I love Brie, I had no real intention of seeing this in theaters. But because of all this bullshit, I'm absolutely going to.

Congrats, idiots. Your nonsense has turned me into a fucking Marvel fan. Eat shit and bow to the brilliance of real cinema!!!

See what you did world?? you hurt joey!

I mentioned this briefly in an earlier post - regarding Carol Danvers not really having an 'arc' in this story. And that's probably true. She discovers her past, and awakens to her powers, but she doesn't grow as a person. But the same thing is true of Captain America. Both of them have a strong moral compass, are brave and empathetic, know who and are comfortable with who they are (Danvers has more of a sense of humor than Rogers, and is less serious). And if you like the character it's fine to have stories where a fully formed person is interacting with a world that challenges them, rather than a world that changes them (as it changed Iron Man, Thor, Dr. Strange). In this movie (which is basically an amnesia story) it's about Carol remembering who she is, in the same way that Captain America is about Steve Rogers unlocking who he has always been - the body catching up to the heart.



So why was this less compelling? Very minor spoilers

Spoiler: show

Both are great in their roles and give strong performances (although I don't know that anyone other than Robert Downey Junior has ever fully inhabited so definitively a role like Chris Evans has - to the point that you cannot imagine someone else taking on that part). The plotting and writing is better in the first (and all) of the Captain America movies, which is part of it, and the action beats are significantly better (both in terms of how they are staged and because the hand to hand stuff is generally more compelling than flying around blasting stuff). But I think the biggest difference may be that the Captain America movies are all about sacrifice in some way. In order to stay true to who he is Cap has to consistently sacrifice something of value - he either gives it up or it is taken away from him. Peggy Carter, his past, Bucky, Shield, the Avengers. Being captain america comes at a great price.

That wasn't really the case here. Yes, she has to question her recent past, but she loses that in the service of rediscovering who she really is. It might be painful to learn that you've been lied to, but in the process you recapture who you've always been. And there is no point where she needs to sacrifice anything substantial. She leaves Earth (and her family) in the end, but there's no sense that it had to be permanent - even if it she turned out to be gone for a very long time. Tonally a larger sacrifice would have changed the triumphant tone of the end, but it might have made it more substantive.

It's not that a movie has to be about a big sacrifice in the end (the Iron Man movies generally don't have that, for instance) but in the absence of growth it may need to be there.

durdencommatyler wrote:You know, it's funny... as much af I love Brie, I had no real intention of seeing this in theaters. But because of all this bullshit, I'm absolutely going to.

Congrats, idiots. Your nonsense has turned me into a fucking Marvel fan. Eat shit and bow to the brilliance of real cinema!!!

I’m seeing this all over the place.
Fair play. Good stance.

Yeah, shovel some cash into a monopolistic corporation’s pockets, that’ll show the trolls!

dimejinky99 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:You know, it's funny... as much af I love Brie, I had no real intention of seeing this in theaters. But because of all this bullshit, I'm absolutely going to.

Congrats, idiots. Your nonsense has turned me into a fucking Marvel fan. Eat shit and bow to the brilliance of real cinema!!!

I’m seeing this all over the place.
Fair play. Good stance.

It’s great for elections as well.

Spoiler, but I heard the new Dumbo is going to have a Marvel Universe tie in.

stip wrote:I mentioned this briefly in an earlier post - regarding Carol Danvers not really having an 'arc' in this story. And that's probably true. She discovers her past, and awakens to her powers, but she doesn't grow as a person. But the same thing is true of Captain America. Both of them have a strong moral compass, are brave and empathetic, know who and are comfortable with who they are (Danvers has more of a sense of humor than Rogers, and is less serious). And if you like the character it's fine to have stories where a fully formed person is interacting with a world that challenges them, rather than a world that changes them (as it changed Iron Man, Thor, Dr. Strange). In this movie (which is basically an amnesia story) it's about Carol remembering who she is, in the same way that Captain America is about Steve Rogers unlocking who he has always been - the body catching up to the heart.



So why was this less compelling? Very minor spoilers

Spoiler: show

Both are great in their roles and give strong performances (although I don't know that anyone other than Robert Downey Junior has ever fully inhabited so definitively a role like Chris Evans has - to the point that you cannot imagine someone else taking on that part). The plotting and writing is better in the first (and all) of the Captain America movies, which is part of it, and the action beats are significantly better (both in terms of how they are staged and because the hand to hand stuff is generally more compelling than flying around blasting stuff). But I think the biggest difference may be that the Captain America movies are all about sacrifice in some way. In order to stay true to who he is Cap has to consistently sacrifice something of value - he either gives it up or it is taken away from him. Peggy Carter, his past, Bucky, Shield, the Avengers. Being captain america comes at a great price.

That wasn't really the case here. Yes, she has to question her recent past, but she loses that in the service of rediscovering who she really is. It might be painful to learn that you've been lied to, but in the process you recapture who you've always been. And there is no point where she needs to sacrifice anything substantial. She leaves Earth (and her family) in the end, but there's no sense that it had to be permanent - even if it she turned out to be gone for a very long time. Tonally a larger sacrifice would have changed the triumphant tone of the end, but it might have made it more substantive.

It's not that a movie has to be about a big sacrifice in the end (the Iron Man movies generally don't have that, for instance) but in the absence of growth it may need to be there.

I think the movie is badly directed, the fights are boring, and the story is pretty much meh. Captain America felt like a better movie when i saw it back in the day. More interesting, the stuff in the past and him waking up here. Oh, and Red Skull.

the all important ranking after 1st viewing

Top Tier: A movies

1. Winter Soldier
2. Infinity War
3. Ragnorok
4. Civil War
5. Avengers

Mid/Top Tier (after ultron these are largely interchangable)

6. Ultron
7. Guardians 2
8. First Avenger
9. Guardians 1
10. Black Panther
11. Iron Man
12.Iron Man 3

Average

13. Homecoming
14. Dr. Strange
15. Captain Marvel (will see again this week)
16. AntMan/Wasp
17. Antman

Subpar(rarely feel like watching)
18. Iron Man 2
19. Dark World
20. Incredible Hulk
21. Thor


though i do like all these movies to at least some degree

VinylGuy wrote:

stip wrote:I mentioned this briefly in an earlier post - regarding Carol Danvers not really having an 'arc' in this story. And that's probably true. She discovers her past, and awakens to her powers, but she doesn't grow as a person. But the same thing is true of Captain America. Both of them have a strong moral compass, are brave and empathetic, know who and are comfortable with who they are (Danvers has more of a sense of humor than Rogers, and is less serious). And if you like the character it's fine to have stories where a fully formed person is interacting with a world that challenges them, rather than a world that changes them (as it changed Iron Man, Thor, Dr. Strange). In this movie (which is basically an amnesia story) it's about Carol remembering who she is, in the same way that Captain America is about Steve Rogers unlocking who he has always been - the body catching up to the heart.



So why was this less compelling? Very minor spoilers

Spoiler: show

Both are great in their roles and give strong performances (although I don't know that anyone other than Robert Downey Junior has ever fully inhabited so definitively a role like Chris Evans has - to the point that you cannot imagine someone else taking on that part). The plotting and writing is better in the first (and all) of the Captain America movies, which is part of it, and the action beats are significantly better (both in terms of how they are staged and because the hand to hand stuff is generally more compelling than flying around blasting stuff). But I think the biggest difference may be that the Captain America movies are all about sacrifice in some way. In order to stay true to who he is Cap has to consistently sacrifice something of value - he either gives it up or it is taken away from him. Peggy Carter, his past, Bucky, Shield, the Avengers. Being captain america comes at a great price.

That wasn't really the case here. Yes, she has to question her recent past, but she loses that in the service of rediscovering who she really is. It might be painful to learn that you've been lied to, but in the process you recapture who you've always been. And there is no point where she needs to sacrifice anything substantial. She leaves Earth (and her family) in the end, but there's no sense that it had to be permanent - even if it she turned out to be gone for a very long time. Tonally a larger sacrifice would have changed the triumphant tone of the end, but it might have made it more substantive.

It's not that a movie has to be about a big sacrifice in the end (the Iron Man movies generally don't have that, for instance) but in the absence of growth it may need to be there.

I think the movie is badly directed, the fights are boring, and the story is pretty much meh. Captain America felt like a better movie when i saw it back in the day. More interesting, the stuff in the past and him waking up here. Oh, and Red Skull.

fair enough - i was thinking more narrowly about the main characters

well, Cap had the body issues for sure, then he was treated like a poser, then he wakes up in a different world and lose everything. He is alone there. I remember the end of Cap being strong because the guy feels like in the start of the movie.
I dont think Danvers gets in that position in her movie...I still liked her. She deserved a better movie for sure.

stip wrote:the all important ranking after 1st viewing

Top Tier: A movies

1. Winter Soldier
2. Infinity War
3. Ragnorok
4. Civil War
5. Avengers

Mid/Top Tier (after ultron these are largely interchangable)

6. Ultron
7. Guardians 2
8. First Avenger
9. Guardians 1
10. Black Panther
11. Iron Man
12.Iron Man 3

Average

13. Homecoming
14. Dr. Strange
15. Captain Marvel (will see again this week)
16. AntMan/Wasp
17. Antman

Subpar(rarely feel like watching)
18. Iron Man 2
19. Dark World
20. Incredible Hulk
21. Thor


though i do like all these movies to at least some degree

Does anyone here not think that Winter Soldier is the best of the MCU movies?

Bi_3 wrote:

stip wrote:the all important ranking after 1st viewing

Top Tier: A movies

1. Winter Soldier
2. Infinity War
3. Ragnorok
4. Civil War
5. Avengers

Mid/Top Tier (after ultron these are largely interchangable)

6. Ultron
7. Guardians 2
8. First Avenger
9. Guardians 1
10. Black Panther
11. Iron Man
12.Iron Man 3

Average

13. Homecoming
14. Dr. Strange
15. Captain Marvel (will see again this week)
16. AntMan/Wasp
17. Antman

Subpar(rarely feel like watching)
18. Iron Man 2
19. Dark World
20. Incredible Hulk
21. Thor


though i do like all these movies to at least some degree

Does anyone here not think that Winter Soldier is the best of the MCU movies?

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Yeah, shovel some cash into a monopolistic corporation’s pockets, that’ll show the trolls!

Either way we lose.

None of the Captain America movies are in my top 7 of the saga.

winter soldier is my favorite