Red Mosquito

I believe you all should read that post again.

why would the state force parents to transition their kids or take them away? has that happened or is this one of those scare tactic points?

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

warehouse wrote:why would the state force parents to transition their kids or take them away? has that happened or is this one of those scare tactic points?

I won’t speak for lvc , but I believe that was written as a theoretical should medical transition become the default treatment for kids with gender dysphoria. If that happens, it could be classified as abuse to not treat the child according to clinical guidelines like religious nutjobs not taking their kids to hospitals

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

Oh wow

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

Oh wow

It is widely accepted scientific knowledge that adult humans, mammals in general, do not spontaneously change sexes.

Bi_3 wrote:

warehouse wrote:why would the state force parents to transition their kids or take them away? has that happened or is this one of those scare tactic points?

I won’t speak for lvc , but I believe that was written as a theoretical should medical transition become the default treatment for kids with gender dysphoria. If that happens, it could be classified as abuse to not treat the child according to clinical guidelines like religious nutjobs not taking their kids to hospitals

i dunno, i think its quite the jump to compare not taking your kids to a hospital to not transitioning them. and i dont think people in favor of transgender rights are as extreme as religious nut jobs. most of them, anyway lol. i dont think kids should be transitioned without parental consent, if at all. i dunno how young we're talking, but i feel like a decision like this would need years of contemplating. i dont think its wrong if someone comes to the decision to transition, but I'm not sure teenagers should make that decision without talking to professionals. not people who are going to talk them out of it, but people who explain what they are doing both medically and in the context of society.

Ey lets imagine another theorical situation that doesnt exist for fun

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

Oh wow

It is widely accepted scientific knowledge that adult humans, mammals in general, do not spontaneously change sexes.

You of course said that, not I. But you’ll have to explain to every woman who has ever lived what that is that happens once they pass menopause what’s happening biologically.
Although if you don’t understand how people’s biology and entire being can change, or not, as soon as they’re born and then become aware, there’s little hope you’ll understand anything else.

Ask your mom to stop taking her hrt and leave it a few weeks. Let us know how she gets on.

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

Oh wow

It is widely accepted scientific knowledge that adult humans, mammals in general, do not spontaneously change sexes.

You of course said that, not I. But you’ll have to explain to every woman who has ever lived what that is that happens once they pass menopause what’s happening biologically.
Although if you don’t understand how people’s biology and entire being can change, or not, as soon as they’re born and then become aware, there’s little hope you’ll understand anything else.

Ask your mom to stop taking her hrt and leave it a few weeks. Let us know how she gets on.

It beggars belief that an adult in a western first world nation with access to the internet could be this ignorant of the fundamentals of the reality they exist in, but here you are.

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

Oh wow

It is widely accepted scientific knowledge that adult humans, mammals in general, do not spontaneously change sexes.

You of course said that, not I. But you’ll have to explain to every woman who has ever lived what that is that happens once they pass menopause what’s happening biologically.
Although if you don’t understand how people’s biology and entire being can change, or not, as soon as they’re born and then become aware, there’s little hope you’ll understand anything else.

Ask your mom to stop taking her hrt and leave it a few weeks. Let us know how she gets on.

It beggars belief that an adult in a western first world nation with access to the internet could be this ignorant of the fundamentals of the reality they exist in, but here you are.

For once we almost agree. But I’m not a horrible bollox trying to ruin other peoples lives for no reason whatsoever and happy to get on with life whereas you’re a sick fuck obsessed with the contents of children’s underpants and determined to ruin their lives.
Good luck with that. You sick fuck how lonely are you?

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I believe you all should read that post again.

Presuming she’s of a certain age, and post menopausal, cos you’re either 12 or just stupid, You should ask your mom to stop taking her HRT tablets (hormone replacement treatment) and watch how quickly she grows a beard and gets very aggressive. Those pills stop women turning into men at a certain point. Nature intended them to for some reason but we have pills to stop it happening. I’m sure Betty who does Moms hair in the local salon will understand why she has to shave your moms new beard and nose hair every few days as well as doing her usual highlights and curl set for her.

I can 100% assure you there is no natural mechanism by which women turn into men

Oh wow

It is widely accepted scientific knowledge that adult humans, mammals in general, do not spontaneously change sexes.

You of course said that, not I. But you’ll have to explain to every woman who has ever lived what that is that happens once they pass menopause what’s happening biologically.
Although if you don’t understand how people’s biology and entire being can change, or not, as soon as they’re born and then become aware, there’s little hope you’ll understand anything else.

Ask your mom to stop taking her hrt and leave it a few weeks. Let us know how she gets on.

It beggars belief that an adult in a western first world nation with access to the internet could be this ignorant of the fundamentals of the reality they exist in, but here you are.

this can be said of everything

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify an earlier statement re: state intervention against parents who resist gender transition therapies. I was referencing a case the Supreme Court declined to hear from Indiana. The materiality of the case was about parents declining treatment for an eating disorder for a kid who said they were transgender. While the SC did decline to hear the case (presumably on account of the actual treatment at hand pertaining to the eating disorder, not gender transition), what I read did indicate that many states do have laws on the books that would allow the state to intervene if parents refuse--I can't recall the exact verbiage--something like "medically necessary" or "lifesaving" treatment.

So my logic was a) the debate on gender transition therapy previously hinged on suicide prevention as a research-backed outcome which could b be construed by a motivated person in the right state to trigger the law mentioned above and c result in state intervention between parents and a legal minor. But you could throw all of that out if you think it's scare tactics and my fundamental question remains. Who benefits from throwing the floodgates wide open for anyone of all ages (multiple pro-transition advocates are cited in the article as wanting to remove all age limits on hormone therapies and surgeries) to undergo transition therapy?

I guess I look at it this way: we make people wait until they're 18 for a lot of things (buying cigarettes, opening a credit card, voting, even getting a tattoo) because on some level our society believes in needing a level of maturity to make certain decisions. Medically changing your body permanently does not seem like an unreasonable thing to add to that list. Pre-18 is in the midst of the hormonal minefield of puberty and still years out from a fully-developed frontal lobe (required for real rational assessment of risk). So who benefits from punching the gas? How do they benefit?

Sounds logical to me

That is my stance as well, but there are two things I haven't reconciled yet:

1.) There are minors whose lives would be save through medical transition. I don't know how many and I don't know how to identify them from kids who would get through with just counseling, but by making the treatment unattainable society is consciously choosing to hurt a non-zero number of our most vulnerable.

2.) A significant part of the trans debate comes from 'passing' vs 'non-passing' people. Passing people get treated differently by strangers. Better. Trans people, particularly MtF, are more likely to pass if they start medical treatment younger and include the gamut of puberty blockers, surgeries, and hormones. So by stopping medical transition for minors we may be indirectly creating a lot of the hostility and social issues they will face for the rest of their lives and create regret they might not otherwise have

Bi_3 wrote:That is my stance as well, but there are two things I haven't reconciled yet:

1.) There are minors whose lives would be save through medical transition. I don't know how many and I don't know how to identify them from kids who would get through with just counseling, but by making the treatment unattainable society is consciously choosing to hurt a non-zero number of our most vulnerable.

2.) A significant part of the trans debate comes from 'passing' vs 'non-passing' people. Passing people get treated differently by strangers. Better. Trans people, particularly MtF, are more likely to pass if they start medical treatment younger and include the gamut of puberty blockers, surgeries, and hormones. So by stopping medical transition for minors we may be indirectly creating a lot of the hostility and social issues they will face for the rest of their lives by allowing them to go through an undesired puberty.

But how do you know either way if you're saving them or condemning them to a worse outcome? The underage patient certainly doesn't know any better than a doctor would. Seems to me it's better to err on the side of caution and wait until they can decide for themselves at a more mature age.

tree_ wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:That is my stance as well, but there are two things I haven't reconciled yet:

1.) There are minors whose lives would be save through medical transition. I don't know how many and I don't know how to identify them from kids who would get through with just counseling, but by making the treatment unattainable society is consciously choosing to hurt a non-zero number of our most vulnerable.

2.) A significant part of the trans debate comes from 'passing' vs 'non-passing' people. Passing people get treated differently by strangers. Better. Trans people, particularly MtF, are more likely to pass if they start medical treatment younger and include the gamut of puberty blockers, surgeries, and hormones. So by stopping medical transition for minors we may be indirectly creating a lot of the hostility and social issues they will face for the rest of their lives by allowing them to go through an undesired puberty.

But how do you know either way if you're saving them or condemning them to a worse outcome? The underage patient certainly doesn't know any better than a doctor would. Seems to me it's better to err on the side of caution and wait until they can decide for themselves at a more mature age.

I agree, we don't know. Possibly cannot ever be able to predict it. But one thing we do know is that for some in this already vulnerable population we will cause harm. That amount of harm may be the best option right now, but it is still harm and must be acknowledged because we are forcing them to suffer it.

Yes it is good to be aware of that

i cant make the jump from not feeding a child to not transitioning them. not feeding a child will kill them. not transitioning them will not. the idea the state will take your child to transition them just sounds too silly and scare tactic-y to even contemplate.