Red Mosquito

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:No, I really don't think so. It's a physical reaction. I can quite literally feel the nerve endings in my ears recoil.

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

McParadigm wrote:I broadly agree with what you, plat, and trag are saying about it. But I also think we tend to romanticize heavy-handed production decisions if we like the resulting work…if the results pleased us, we see the choices as having a degree of artistic authenticity that isn’t always factual.

Nobody gives two shits that the Beatles switched over from recording their own doubling vocal tracks to using an artificial method that reduced the human imperfections in favor of the lads just generally not wanting to bother. Double tracking was about commercial viability, not artistic vision. It wasn’t a creativity-based decision. And the Beatles jumped on the opportunity to do it with the most artificial means available to them. But we’re not going to bitch about fucking Revolver, because sometimes you just have to grow up and not think about this shit.

I have a pretty high threshold for variance in production choices, even on records I don't especially care for. I don't have a vendetta against aesthetic fauxs-pas of yesteryear, or against production decisions being made in pursuit of commercial ends; I like the way those little fads and hallmarks contribute to the story of music history. And to be completely honest, I didn't even register this stuff for most of my life. But there has been a pretty sharp turn in the last five years in regards to how my ears naturally respond to records that feel aggressively loud and compressed. This is very likely due to changes in my hearing/general biology as I get older, but it does seem relatively unique to records that have been released in the past...10 years? 15 years? Records from the '50's and '60's simply don't possess these same characteristics, unless they're foisted upon them by way of a modern remastering.

And just to be clear, this isn't me "thinking about this shit" so much as it is trying to articulate, for the sake of discussion, what it is that I'm naturally hearing and feeling when I listen to the recording, the same way I would try to articulate what I'm hearing in an arrangement, or a performance, or a set of lyrics. I don't know going into a new song what my brain and ears are going to respond to or focus on, but I enjoy following the thread whatever it may be. That's all I'm trying to do here.

I’m not saying it’s not worth discussing, and I have said I don’t disagree with the broad points you have made. I’m only saying that our impatience or irritation with these things is often conditional, and dependent on our opinion of the music involved. We like or dislike the record first, and then we begin the post mortem. If the music was sufficiently enthralling, the production ceases to be a hurtle.

You’re certainly right that the last 10-15 years has normalized a lot of bad behaviors in music production. Some of the records that suffered from these choices have been appreciated in the OB forum. And why not? The music was good.

When the point is “the production is unfavorable or harsh,” then I agree. But when that becomes a barrier to someone’s ability to like the song, that’s just a matter of their personal preferences and priorities. That’s all that is.

I think this oversimplifies, to the point of negating, what is for some (for me) a wholly visceral experience. It's not couched in some sort of logical scaffolding; the post-mortem happens after I hear the music and my face involuntarily starts wincing.

that's not your personal preference?

No, I really don't think so. It's a physical reaction. I can quite literally feel the nerve endings in my ears recoil.

RockPusher wrote:Just listened on the 'phones again and this thing ALWAYS turns me into a human bobblehead. Put on Worldwide Suicide afterward (which was the closest analog I could come up with at the moment) to see if it evokes the same visceral response in me, and it doesn't, though it gets close in a couple parts. This is Pearl Jam at their best, in my opinion.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:WWS is better than Dark Matter. In my opinion, of course

VinylGuy wrote:Trag please just go away from this thread, we all know how you feel, now its time for you to listen to some ice spice

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Trag please just go away from this thread, we all know how you feel, now its time for you to listen to some ice spice

Why does he have to go away because of his opinion? We all know how everyone feels about this song. Why doesn’t anyone else have to go away?

tragabigzanda wrote:

dad wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:WWS is better than Dark Matter. In my opinion, of course

agreed. it slaps.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Trag please just go away from this thread, we all know how you feel, now its time for you to listen to some ice spice

Why does he have to go away because of his opinion? We all know how everyone feels about this song. Why doesn’t anyone else have to go away?

Buby wrote:

RockPusher wrote:Just listened on the 'phones again and this thing ALWAYS turns me into a human bobblehead. Put on Worldwide Suicide afterward (which was the closest analog I could come up with at the moment) to see if it evokes the same visceral response in me, and it doesn't, though it gets close in a couple parts. This is Pearl Jam at their best, in my opinion.

Maybe due to rarely going back to it, but I still bop to WWS.