Red Mosquito

Trump camp says this morning that the debate idea was a joke.

Of course he wouldnt because he'd get the floor mopped with his mop

tragabigzanda wrote:

Strat wrote:Of course he wouldnt because he'd get the floor mopped with his mop

Possibly. Don't get me wrong, I hate Trump and I am a Bernie supporter. But they are both long on rhetoric and short on details; and they both seek to upend the status quo. I would have enjoyed the shit out of this debate, and it could have given Hillary a run for her money.

SNL would have been awesome

Strat wrote: None of this makes me feel sorry for such bigotry and hatred and ridiculousness. Evolve or GTFO

My interpretation of that was that these people where never given that chance, they were assigned those labels based on there race and gender, and told to suck it up. Not really any different than calling black kids "super predators".

Either way, it is again an opinion piece and not a proposal built on any sort of merited evidence. It is perhaps built on an observable correlation...that the increasing economic woes of the demographic who used to make up most of the middle class have coincided with this growing acceptance of anger and intolerance is at least semi-documentable...but nothing causal has been established.

I don't think a premise of disenfranchisement would be hard to explore (I do believe there is evidence to support the idea that middle class whites were hit harder by the downturn than other demographics). However, to be anecdotal, everyone I know who is a Trump supporter is wealthy, has either never worked or is long retired, and lives in a community that is exceptional for its lack of diversity. They aren't frustrated, they aren't marginalized, and they're barely concerned with the world outside their basic Facebook friends list. So there must be a draw beyond a feeling of victimization.

McParadigm wrote:Either way, it is again an opinion piece and not a proposal built on any sort of merited evidence. It is perhaps built on an observable correlation...that the increasing economic woes of the demographic who used to make up most of the middle class have coincided with this growing acceptance of anger and intolerance is at least semi-documentable...but nothing causal has been established.

The economic impact is one thing, sure, but I think there was something else there... more along the lines of a rise in cultural alienation. It's not just that they are struggling economically, most people in this country are, it's the implication that they deserve it because of their race/gender/religion/sexual-orientation/etc, not because of any particular choice they have made, and the article correctly points out this attitude is pervasive in media and higher education institutions where it approaches a zealotry that would be never be tolerated would it be aimed at a different demographic. And this where someone like Trump comes in, and where I think there may be some truth to the comparisons with Mussolini, in that they are able to capture those who feel unjustly effected by this change in society and turn that into political power. So perhaps the solution to the rise in power of clowns like Flopsy isn't more of the same name calling and sweeping generalizations that created this problem in the first place (in no way targeted at you McP).

Strat wrote: None of this makes me feel sorry for such bigotry and hatred and ridiculousness. Evolve or GTFO

How are you so unable to see the irony in statements like that?

BurtReynolds wrote:

Strat wrote: None of this makes me feel sorry for such bigotry and hatred and ridiculousness. Evolve or GTFO

How are you so unable to see the irony in statements like that?

I forget this forum is for serious talk only. Im sorry

It's not just that they are struggling economically, most people in this country are, it's the implication that they deserve it because of their race/gender/religion/sexual-orientation/etc, not because of any particular choice they have made

But, again, this is a statement bound by perception. It's not a measurable, defendable truth, and it's not currently supported by any such truths. It just "feels" accurate, based on your interpersonal associations and media exposure. What's your proposed approach to confirming it, without falling into the apocryphal?

In other words, how do we learn that this is indeed an accurate statement, so we can know that we are not debating or acting based on an assumed known?

and the article correctly points out this attitude is pervasive in media and higher education institutions where it approaches a zealotry

"Correctly" is an assumption unsupported in this discussion, to date. How do you quantify such a trend, to avoid accepting it on such insubstantial grounds as outlier stories in the news and the "feeling" that it is true?

As with the article that went up the other day, I see no reason to say this is wrong...I just don't see a reason to engage it at all, until the presumptions that set its foundations are reasonably confirmed.

McParadigm wrote:
In other words, how do we learn that this is indeed an accurate statement, so we can know that we are not debating or acting based on an assumed known?

A twitter account should do the trick.

BurtReynolds wrote:

McParadigm wrote:
In other words, how do we learn that this is indeed an accurate statement, so we can know that we are not debating or acting based on an assumed known?

A twitter account should do the trick.

It's a reasonable question and given the contentious social context of the issue, one for which I doubt a data set exists or could be generated that would satisfy it. Which was probably why it was asked. But that's not the point is it? Opinion pieces such as that are designed to provide the simplified starting points of a concept to a broader audience for them to evaluate, and should the idea gain traction, then proper sociological analysis can begin. One can't exactly look at the photo finish of a race when the runners are still on the blocks.

Those poor, poor misunderstood Nazis. Why can't the Jews just be nice to them? They don't deserve to be marginalized because of what they believe. Everybody should have the god-given right to annihilate an entire race. Goddamnit, this is America.

If we could only stop those goddamn homos from getting married, working-class families would finally rise to the top. Terrorism will stop too...it's like a domino effect.

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:Those poor, poor misunderstood Nazis. Why can't the Jews just be nice to them? They don't deserve to be marginalized because of what they believe. Everybody should have the god-given right to annihilate an entire race. Goddamnit, this is America.

The Jews were taking their all of their jobs, what choice did they have? They were just attempting to make Germany great again.

Comparing Midwestern white people to Nazis kinda proves the point, but it seems utterly lost on people.

Its easy to make fun of Trump because everything he says is pretty vague, but his sentiments on water arent all that crazy. There are farmers in California's central valley that have signs on their fallow fields denouncing a, "congress-created dustbowl", and theyve been up for quite a while.