Red Mosquito

i forget what thread we were talking about this in, but that may reflect the lack of a signature sound. Because PJ has done so much without really carving out a clearly identifiable sonic stamp (like U2 or REM or the chili peppers or another band with their longevity) outside of Eddie you are likely to have a far more fractured set of expectations

by the way stip i love your dp

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Well, I think our fandom is largely to do with Ten as well, but yeah, we were totally on board until Riot Act (give or take a few for that album), so we obviously felt they were doing something very right over the course of those first seven albums. I guess plenty liked S/T as well, even if not on this board. I would say well, Backspacer is one album, but I think we've somehow gained the sense that Backspacer was more than just the one album experimentation, and that this album was somehow an attempt to redefine what the band was about in a wider sense. And it's a big collective WTF. I'm not sure what happened. I try to enjoy what I can now, but man, I would be on top of the world if they suddenly realised one day that they should carry on where Riot Act or S/T left off. Will Lightning Bolt be that album? Possibly. Will it be what Backspacer should've been? I hope so.

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

Pearl Jam is and has never been really thàt diverse.

Angus wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

Pearl Jam is and has never been really thàt diverse.

Well, I know that. But I don't mean in terms of originality but in terms of bands they'll pilfer ideas from. It's very rare that PJ established a style for any amount of time before changing their minds, and usually it wasn't a sense of changing direction but musical tastes changing. This band has always been a vehicle for these guys' tastes in music and not a great deal else. Also, the setlists have always been massively diverse. There aren't many bands who would play 'Wishlist' next to 'Go' next to 'The Fixer' next to 'Bugs'... 'Random' may be a better word than diverse in this respect. People who found them exciting live, did so because they were never sure what PJ would turn up that night. Now that's all gone and they're decidedly predictable.

I don't think they really seem more or less confused about what they want to be, or the songs they want to make, then at other points in their career. They've always been a band unsure of themselves to a certain degree, and it's probably been, at many points in their career, a part of their strength rather than a weakness. I just think this is the music they want to make. There could be supplementary concerns causing that desire (i.e. I don't think it's that strange to believe that they have made making a harder push for, and writing in the vein of, greater relevance to the general public in the past few years), but I just think this is what they want to be doing.

Oh well.

If Ed really hopes to be playing until he's old, I really do hope they'll eventually settle down into emulating Neil Young and Tom Waits rather than Eric Clapton and The Rolling Stones.

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Well, I think our fandom is largely to do with Ten as well, but yeah, we were totally on board until Riot Act (give or take a few for that album), so we obviously felt they were doing something very right over the course of those first seven albums. I guess plenty liked S/T as well, even if not on this board. I would say well, Backspacer is one album, but I think we've somehow gained the sense that Backspacer was more than just the one album experimentation, and that this album was somehow an attempt to redefine what the band was about in a wider sense. And it's a big collective WTF. I'm not sure what happened. I try to enjoy what I can now, but man, I would be on top of the world if they suddenly realised one day that they should carry on where Riot Act or S/T left off. Will Lightning Bolt be that album? Possibly. Will it be what Backspacer should've been? I hope so.

About 10... sticking musically to what 10 is would have shrunk their fanbase far more than No Code in theory did. They shouldn't be thinking of 10 as the artistic highlight of their career and they seem to.

I'm not sure I see that. None of their recent work, even 'return to rock' S/T, seems to emulate Ten in sound or style at all.

harmless wrote:

Angus wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

Pearl Jam is and has never been really thàt diverse.

Well, I know that. But I don't mean in terms of originality but in terms of bands they'll pilfer ideas from. It's very rare that PJ established a style for any amount of time before changing their minds, and usually it wasn't a sense of changing direction but musical tastes changing. This band has always been a vehicle for these guys' tastes in music and not a great deal else. Also, the setlists have always been massively diverse. There aren't many bands who would play 'Wishlist' next to 'Go' next to 'The Fixer' next to 'Bugs'... 'Random' may be a better word than diverse in this respect. People who found them exciting live, did so because they were never sure what PJ would turn up that night. Now that's all gone and they're decidedly predictable.

Yeah, I agree. I think for a second I was afraid you'd go down the "Pearl Jam is so experimental" road.

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Well, I think our fandom is largely to do with Ten as well, but yeah, we were totally on board until Riot Act (give or take a few for that album), so we obviously felt they were doing something very right over the course of those first seven albums. I guess plenty liked S/T as well, even if not on this board. I would say well, Backspacer is one album, but I think we've somehow gained the sense that Backspacer was more than just the one album experimentation, and that this album was somehow an attempt to redefine what the band was about in a wider sense. And it's a big collective WTF. I'm not sure what happened. I try to enjoy what I can now, but man, I would be on top of the world if they suddenly realised one day that they should carry on where Riot Act or S/T left off. Will Lightning Bolt be that album? Possibly. Will it be what Backspacer should've been? I hope so.

About 10... sticking musically to what 10 is would have shrunk their fanbase far more than No Code in theory did. They shouldn't be thinking of 10 as the artistic highlight of their career and they seem to.

Oh, I agree with that. But that's helped by the casual fans' constantly talking about 10. For most people in the UK, you mention Pearl Jam and 10 is the only album they remember. I hope PJ aren't as idiotic as to think that this suggests anything but that the general public are idiots with short-term memory problems, but I'm not sure.

When you think about it, every album was it's own experiment and attempt to redefine. While we love the term "logical extension", I don't think any album feels like "Previous Album Part 2" and that's what has really allowed them carry on and maintain the fanbase. While we all want the next No Code, or next Yield... there are also newer fans (or reconnected fans) who want the next Backspacer. And no, those people are probably not here on RM.

p.s. I really do want them to carry on where No Code left off, but that's just my current appetite.

Angus wrote:

harmless wrote:

Angus wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

Pearl Jam is and has never been really thàt diverse.

Well, I know that. But I don't mean in terms of originality but in terms of bands they'll pilfer ideas from. It's very rare that PJ established a style for any amount of time before changing their minds, and usually it wasn't a sense of changing direction but musical tastes changing. This band has always been a vehicle for these guys' tastes in music and not a great deal else. Also, the setlists have always been massively diverse. There aren't many bands who would play 'Wishlist' next to 'Go' next to 'The Fixer' next to 'Bugs'... 'Random' may be a better word than diverse in this respect. People who found them exciting live, did so because they were never sure what PJ would turn up that night. Now that's all gone and they're decidedly predictable.

Yeah, I agree. I think for a second I was afraid you'd go down the "Pearl Jam is so experimental" road.

No way. The experimental in their music has always been aesthetic / window dressing, however enjoyable it was and however much we wish they'd fight to get it back again.

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Preaching to the choir, son. Our continued rabid fandom is probably re-enforcing this bad behavior.

I have really high hopes for LB, given the long recording period and lack of b-sides from Avocado and BS they should be able to put together a set of 12 quality songs. Well, 6 quality songs and six of what they think we want.

broken iris wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Preaching to the choir, son. Our continued rabid fandom is probably re-enforcing this bad behavior.

I have really high hopes for LB, given the long recording period and lack of b-sides from Avocado and BS they should be able to put together a set of 12 quality songs. Well, 6 quality songs and six of what they think we want.

I'm not even discounting 'what they think we want'. That's MYM to me, but MYM just happens to be good. Similarly, I hate the fuck out of Supersonic but really it's only the lyrics spoiling it. I don't need them to reinvent the wheel, that's the frustrating thing. I don't need another No Code. I don't think there was a single Pearl Jam song I hated -- not even one -- before S/T. But that album had Big Wave (hate) and Backspacer had Supersonic (hate). I would love an album with nothing horrible on it, and I don't think that's too much to ask. I hope it isn't anyway.

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Well, I think our fandom is largely to do with Ten as well, but yeah, we were totally on board until Riot Act (give or take a few for that album), so we obviously felt they were doing something very right over the course of those first seven albums. I guess plenty liked S/T as well, even if not on this board. I would say well, Backspacer is one album, but I think we've somehow gained the sense that Backspacer was more than just the one album experimentation, and that this album was somehow an attempt to redefine what the band was about in a wider sense. And it's a big collective WTF. I'm not sure what happened. I try to enjoy what I can now, but man, I would be on top of the world if they suddenly realised one day that they should carry on where Riot Act or S/T left off. Will Lightning Bolt be that album? Possibly. Will it be what Backspacer should've been? I hope so.

About 10... sticking musically to what 10 is would have shrunk their fanbase far more than No Code in theory did. They shouldn't be thinking of 10 as the artistic highlight of their career and they seem to.

Oh, I agree with that. But that's helped by the casual fans' constantly talking about 10. For most people in the UK, you mention Pearl Jam and 10 is the only album they remember. I hope PJ aren't as idiotic as to think that this suggests anything but that the general public are idiots with short-term memory problems, but I'm not sure.

I think it's the same in all of Europe. But casual fans are usually people who now Pearl Jam as part of grunge rather than people who have any interest in the band per se and those are somehow supposed to hate everything post 10.
Judging by their setlists (and i don't mind them or any other band playing the hits), PJ20 and Amongst The Waves I'm not sure what to think. I think Yield is an indication of trying to revert back not necessary to 10 but Vs. definitely.

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mine wrote:

harmless wrote:

fishbob wrote:I don't think Pearl Jam knows what good Pearl Jam is anymore, and that scares me. I think they're having a mid-life crisis.

I think everyone always had a different idea of what 'good Pear Jam' was, and that's part of the problem. You can't possibly be in a band as diverse as this, and then later on settle on one direction (no pun intended) that everyone is going to be happy with. That's what they've tried, and it's made them jacks of all trades, masters of none.

they should realise that they still have a fanbase that affords them to headline festivals around the world and sell dog collars is thanks to what they did on Vitalogy and No Code rather than what they did on 10. This is in my opinion their main problem in evaluating their work. Their fanbase is a s large because of people who liked how they were developing and they still don't have a clue.

Well, I think our fandom is largely to do with Ten as well, but yeah, we were totally on board until Riot Act (give or take a few for that album), so we obviously felt they were doing something very right over the course of those first seven albums. I guess plenty liked S/T as well, even if not on this board. I would say well, Backspacer is one album, but I think we've somehow gained the sense that Backspacer was more than just the one album experimentation, and that this album was somehow an attempt to redefine what the band was about in a wider sense. And it's a big collective WTF. I'm not sure what happened. I try to enjoy what I can now, but man, I would be on top of the world if they suddenly realised one day that they should carry on where Riot Act or S/T left off. Will Lightning Bolt be that album? Possibly. Will it be what Backspacer should've been? I hope so.

About 10... sticking musically to what 10 is would have shrunk their fanbase far more than No Code in theory did. They shouldn't be thinking of 10 as the artistic highlight of their career and they seem to.

Oh, I agree with that. But that's helped by the casual fans' constantly talking about 10. For most people in the UK, you mention Pearl Jam and 10 is the only album they remember. I hope PJ aren't as idiotic as to think that this suggests anything but that the general public are idiots with short-term memory problems, but I'm not sure.

I think it's the same in all of Europe. But casual fans are usually people who now Pearl Jam as part of grunge rather than people who have any interest in the band per se and those are somehow supposed to hate everything post 10.
Judging by their setlists (and i don't mind them or any other band playing the hits), PJ20 and Amongst The Waves I'm not sure what to think. I think Yield is an indication of trying to revert back not necessary to 10 but Vs. definitely.

I agree. During my first few listens to GTF I definitely got the sense that they were trying to recreate the epic anthem again. It felt slightly awkward at the time. Which is why, ironically, I don't really buy those arguments now. Whenever someone says 'PJ are just trying to...', I reject the opinion and decide what I think for myself. I think ATW works for what its aim is, for example. Could they make another GTF? No, they couldn't, and they know that. So they made ATW instead. *shrug* If they wanted to make an anthem with the quality of GTF again, they would have to do it very differently and nobody would think it sounded like GTF.

Not sure I buy that either. Yield is not much like Vs. at all.

The only time they've really sold the "we're going back to rocking" was S/T, and even that was a little more complicated than that. If they've ever tried to emulate a prior sound, they've never really done it successfully.

In general, I don't think the problem with Backspacer is that they're trying to remake a certain album from their past. The problem's in the songwriting.

My impression of GTF was my own, and I eventually discarded it. But for a while, that song (and Yield) was lauded by everyone else around me and I didn't really get it. I thought it was good, not great. So yeah, maybe these impressions of "What a hack job!" about songs are always temporary.