Red Mosquito

The Argonaut wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

The Argonaut wrote:Trinity's realization doesn't come in just that moment in the diner. She comes into the diner already having nearly figured it out for herself but decided to not go all the way down the rabbit hole. It wasn't a snap thing. She knew the truth but didn't allow herself to articulate it fully, even to herself, because she knew that would explode the Matrix life she had. She'd been thinking about it since she shook Neo's hand in the cafe at the beginning of the movie.

You don't know what she is thinking.

She says exactly what she is thinking, out loud, in multiple scenes over the course of the movie. This is a terrible movie, but I don't see the criticism that the Tiffany/Trinity story is under-explained as totally fair

I haven't seen it thanks a lot for these spoilers.

If anything, the criticism that one doesn't understand Trinity is a valid criticism of the original Matrix. There are multiple scenes where she says half a sentence then stops. Or Neo asks her a question that she just doesn't answer. I think it's all about how she loves him, but it's awkward the way it happens over and over again. It's probably the most annoying thing about the first movie.

Like this one. It's the kind of thing you might miss on the first go-round, but by now it is just so obnoxious

lol

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

spike wrote:

Rob wrote:I wondered the same thing as Burt. Just weird that this story goes that way, with Tiffany realizing she’s Trinity and then just immediately ditching the family she was with all that time. Her character in general was handled terribly in this movie, which I think is its biggest flaw. But I enjoyed it, still. The action sequences weren’t as good and some of the new characters needed more time, but for a sequel 18 years later it was good.

Once she remembers she’s Trinity, with that comes the knowledge that her matrix life isn’t real. She’s been unplugged before, so the matrix isn’t the only reality she’s known.

also this

Yea, all I’m saying is that it just seemed weird to me the way they handled it, and her character in general. Neo struggles to leave, seems an afterthought for her when it’s time. The overall idea/arc is good. The movie is about Trinity more than anyone else and my only gripe is that I don’t think they handled her character well here.

personally I think her lack of hesitancy to leave just shows how much thinking she's already done and her strength of character

I want to say more, but it's about the trans / queer allegory stuff

The Argonaut wrote:Trinity's realization doesn't come in just that moment in the diner. She comes into the diner already having nearly figured it out for herself but decided to not go all the way down the rabbit hole. It wasn't a snap thing. She knew the truth but didn't allow herself to articulate it fully, even to herself, because she knew that would explode the Matrix life she had. She'd been thinking about it since she shook Neo's hand in the cafe at the beginning of the movie.

yeah, this, 100%

(a bunch of "woke" bullshit coming up, here's RM's blue pill / red pill choice to read or not, since I don't want to be mocked by anybody; I can't help seeing the Matrix through this lense, it just doesn't exist without it)

Neo spent a long time coming to terms with his (her?) realisation, literally (in terms of the Matrix) and allegorically (it's all a very obvious allegory for trans womanhood)

Trinity's allegory isn't trans womanhood, it's queerness, love; Trinity is already mentally out of her marriage to "Chad" when she meets Neo (this is why the husband has such an obviously cis het-coded name; it's as funny as "Karen" is in a bad movie about racism)

whereas the first film was an allegory about coming to terms with closeting and trans womanhood, this one is a celebration of queer love; that's why it simplifies the mythology so much and becomes a movie about Neo and Trinity and a bike ride (my only criticism of the movie is that the bike ride wasn't longer, a cheesy road trip for our lesbians would have been great)

Please stop pointing out things that this movie does well. I want to hate it!

WHAT IF I TOLD YOU
THERE IS NOTHING HERE TO HATE

If you think of this movie as a symptom of an exhausted cultural field it's pretty incredible, really.

Ms Harmless wrote:WHAT IF I TOLD YOU
THERE IS NOTHING HERE TO HATE

The more I think about it and the further I get away from actually sitting in front of the screen watching it, the more I realize you're right. The Matrix is so popular and it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. No sequel could possibly make all of them happy. The movie acknowledges this specifically in the scenes where they're brainstorming what the sequel game should be about. So Lana didn't try to do the impossible, she didn't try to please everyone. She made the movie she wanted to make, with the emphasis on the elements of The Matrix that are important to her. So I understand how someone who feels the same about the original trilogy as she does would like it. It's a success in that way.

I love your analysis of the arc of queer love. I don't think I had fully understood that distinction in the movie.

I retract my criticism of the movie as 'in one ear and out the other nothingness'. But I'm still nowhere near ready to call this a good movie

The Argonaut wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:WHAT IF I TOLD YOU
THERE IS NOTHING HERE TO HATE

The more I think about it and the further I get away from actually sitting in front of the screen watching it, the more I realize you're right. The Matrix is so popular and it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. No sequel could possibly make all of them happy. The movie acknowledges this specifically in the scenes where they're brainstorming what the sequel game should be about. So Lana didn't try to do the impossible, she didn't try to please everyone. She made the movie she wanted to make, with the emphasis on the elements of The Matrix that are important to her. So I understand how someone who feels the same about the original trilogy as she does would like it. It's a success in that way.

I love your analysis of the arc of queer love. I don't think I had fully understood that distinction in the movie.

I retract my criticism of the movie as 'in one ear and out the other nothingness'. But I'm still nowhere near ready to call this a good movie

I love you Argonaut

Careful there MsH

Argo's strategy: Placate your enemies and leave the people defending you out to dry; be alone.

You'll love me someday, too, Mickey. You'll all love me someday!

Yeah and then you'll leave me out to dry again!

I didn't say I would love you back

I never expected you to.

Mickey wrote:Careful there MsH

Argo's strategy: Placate your enemies and leave the people defending you out to dry; be alone.

He's already abandoned me!

Glad all of you liked it. Hope I will too.

Mickey wrote:Careful there MsH

Argo's strategy: Placate your enemies and leave the people defending you out to dry; be alone.

cannot be too careful out here

I honestly had such a good time with this. Enjoyed it thoroughly. It's so goddamn goofy at times. The cast is having a blast. The writers felt like they were having a good time. It's infectious.

And after finally watching it I can't believe you people's criticisms of Trinity's epiphany. It seemed like the righteous rage that has been simmering inside her finally boiled over and burned off the last remaining vestiges of her connection to this world (which, I'd also like to point out, is not as sudden as some of you made it sound. She'd been questioning her reality ever since her husband laughed at her. She's lived with this for a bit.