Page 17 of 39

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 12:55 pm
by Kevin Davis
Sleight of Hand
In Hiding
Release
Help Help
Army Reserve
Mankind
Better Man
The End
Leash
Retrograde
Yellow Moon

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 1:34 pm
by Kevin Davis
Kevin Davis wrote:
stip wrote:I've worked in non-profit education my whole life. If you're that unhappy and unfulfilled in your job go back to school and do something else. Quit whining about it. that's my read on Sleight of Hand.
This certainly sounds like a take from someone who has worked in academia his whole life. Surely you understand that not everyone stuck in a miserable job has the resources to just put his or her life on hold to go back to fucking college, as if that guarantees anyone anything anyway. Don't get me wrong, I've been in jobs that have made me utterly miserable and I support the general premise that eventually we become co-conspirators in our own misery, but this take feels pretty oblivious to me. I mean, couldn't you essentially make this same argument about every song chronicling any personal unhappiness of any kind? Aren't "Corduroy" and "Not For You" also, in effect, Eddie bellyaching about how much he hates his job?
I gave this song a listen this morning, and I don't even really think it's about being unhappy in your job at all -- not solely, anyway. It's a song about losing yourself to the sadness of routine, about the death of a certain kind of hope, excitement, and optimism about what the rest of your life might hold, and about wondering how all of this just seemingly sort of "happened" to you without what ever felt like your conscious participation in it. I don't think there's anything to indicate that the person in the song is specifically unhappy with their job, even though it uses that 9-5, Monday-Friday ritual as the framework for the type of repetitive cycle this person struggles to find himself in. The music perfectly mirrors this -- that swirling, shoegaze-y mix of sadness and boredom, not because there is are any kind of emotional fireworks being put on display in the song, but because of what the composition of the thing itself evokes.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 1:42 pm
by epilogue
Kevin Davis wrote:
Kevin Davis wrote:
stip wrote:I've worked in non-profit education my whole life. If you're that unhappy and unfulfilled in your job go back to school and do something else. Quit whining about it. that's my read on Sleight of Hand.
This certainly sounds like a take from someone who has worked in academia his whole life. Surely you understand that not everyone stuck in a miserable job has the resources to just put his or her life on hold to go back to fucking college, as if that guarantees anyone anything anyway. Don't get me wrong, I've been in jobs that have made me utterly miserable and I support the general premise that eventually we become co-conspirators in our own misery, but this take feels pretty oblivious to me. I mean, couldn't you essentially make this same argument about every song chronicling any personal unhappiness of any kind? Aren't "Corduroy" and "Not For You" also, in effect, Eddie bellyaching about how much he hates his job?
I gave this song a listen this morning, and I don't even really think it's about being unhappy in your job at all -- not solely, anyway. It's a song about losing yourself to the sadness of routine, about the death of a certain kind of hope, excitement, and optimism about what the rest of your life might hold, and about wondering how all of this just seemingly sort of "happened" to you without what ever felt like your conscious participation in it. I don't think there's anything to indicate that the person in the song is specifically unhappy with their job, even though it uses that 9-5, Monday-Friday ritual as the framework for the type of repetitive cycle this person struggles to find himself in. The music perfectly mirrors this -- that swirling, shoegaze-y mix of sadness and boredom, not because there is are any kind of emotional fireworks being put on display in the song, but because of what the composition of the thing itself evokes.
Bless you, Kevin Davis. Please, never ever leave us.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 1:52 pm
by stip
Kevin Davis wrote:
stip wrote:I've worked in non-profit education my whole life. If you're that unhappy and unfulfilled in your job go back to school and do something else. Quit whining about it. that's my read on Sleight of Hand.
This certainly sounds like a take from someone who has worked in academia his whole life. Surely you understand that not everyone stuck in a miserable job has the resources to just put his or her life on hold to go back to fucking college, as if that guarantees anyone anything anyway. Don't get me wrong, I've been in jobs that have made me utterly miserable and I support the general premise that eventually we become co-conspirators in our own misery, but this take feels pretty oblivious to me. I mean, couldn't you essentially make this same argument about every song chronicling any personal unhappiness of any kind? Aren't "Corduroy" and "Not For You" also, in effect, Eddie bellyaching about how much he hates his job?
of course you could - see every dismissive one off post everyone here has ever made about any song ever

And I work in a community college so the entire focus of my job is about providing access to people who otherwise could not afford to do so, in formats that work well for them. One of the things I am most proud of is a program we created to help low income parents return to school. But that's not who SoH is about.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 2:03 pm
by stip
I was curious about my non-dismissive take when I wrote the Binaural guided tour thread (almost a decade ago). I thought pretty much the same thing as KD, and if I am having a serious discussion about the song I agree. But I just cannot get into this thing at all. From a listener perspective, unless I am totally swept up in the album I find this song a lifeless and uninteresting wall of sound. The weakest point on a record that has a few of them. This is exactly what I do not want from Pearl Jam. They are at their best when they start from this place and problem and focus on trying to change it. Binaural just wallows. I have other bands that can do that for me.


Although far from my favorite song on this record, Sleight of Hand might be the most important, the most archetypal, the one that cuts right to the heart of what this record is about. The song is cold, lonely, and would be hopeless if it wasn’t so tired. Sleight of Hand is what happens to the character in I’m Open if he forgot to make time to dream for himself, or the character in Small Town without her epiphany that it’s not too late to begin again. Sleight of Hand tells us the story of a man trapped in the same dull, repetitive, dark, monochromatic life devoid of color and light. Whatever hopes, dreams, plans, and ambitions got lost in the daily grind of living—the hours, days, years lost to the commute, the meaningless work, the routines necessary to fill the empty hours. He is alive, but feels absolutely nothing, so is he? You get the sense that this is a character who had spent some time running away from himself, trying to escape who he was and who he is, and he was ultimately too successful. In his struggle for peace, his fear of engagement, his fear of himself, he lost himself—all that’s left is a shell, devoid of substance, meaning. Sleight of Hand is American Beauty without its second chances.

There’s still a tiny spark left—the part of him that remembers who he was, what he wanted out of life, what he was capable of doing. But it is so small, so insignificant. The listener is left with the sense that he might actually have been better off without remembering it. He’d still be empty, but he wouldn’t be haunted in the same way

There is a really powerful ambiguity in the climax of the song. There’s no redemption here. He waves goodbye to the spark—the part of himself that survived in the void that became his life, but we don’t know if this is because he chooses to kill himself or if he just buries the thought because it’s too hard, too painful for him to live with the memory.

The title concept is intriguing too. A sleight of hand is the misdirection involved in magic, pick pocketing, or anything where the subject ‘s focus is elsewhere. While they’re looking at what they think matters, what they think is significant, the agent is acting on him without him realizing it. A victim of sleight of hand has lost their agency and they don’t even know it, or don’t recognize it until it is too late.

The music tells this story perfectly—in some ways even better than the lyrics. While this is a strong lyric (the second verse after the Mondays were made to fall lyric is particularly strong )it is not as solid from top to bottom as I recalled—some of the lines are awkward or confusing, especially in the chorus. We don’t notice or care in part because the sentiment is still clear, but the real star of Sleight of Hand is the soundscape. The delicate, mournful sound of the guitar, the lost, wistful fills, the crazed feedback of the chorus, the uncertainty in the drumming, the distant sadness in Eddie’s voice. Sleight of Hand works best at this elemental level.

The question that remains is whether or not we’re supposed to feel sorry for this person. It certainly seems like we’re supposed to, but Soon Forget undermines quite a bit of that sympathy. That’s an argument for tomorrow, though.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 2:10 pm
by stip
I made this comment during the leak period, but I hear SoH and Seven O'Clock as two versions of the same song (although Seven O'Clock is more explicitly political). The way the subject matter is treated, the energy of the song, everything about 7 Oclock is what I want out of a musical response to someone feeling trapped in a rut.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 2:24 pm
by Brett
stip wrote:I made this comment during the leak period, but I hear SoH and Seven O'Clock as two versions of the same song (although Seven O'Clock is more explicitly political). The way the subject matter is treated, the energy of the song, everything about 7 Oclock is what I want out of a musical response to someone feeling trapped in a rut.
Other than the fact that "Seven O'Clock" mentions despondency and depression in one small set of lyrics, I don't think there's any commonality with "Sleight of Hand."

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 2:35 pm
by stip
Brett wrote:
stip wrote:I made this comment during the leak period, but I hear SoH and Seven O'Clock as two versions of the same song (although Seven O'Clock is more explicitly political). The way the subject matter is treated, the energy of the song, everything about 7 Oclock is what I want out of a musical response to someone feeling trapped in a rut.
Other than the fact that "Seven O'Clock" mentions despondency and depression in one small set of lyrics, I don't think there's any commonality with "Sleight of Hand."
Both songs start from a place where someone is feeling trapped, despondent, and unable to master their surroundings. The songs go in entirely different thematic and lyrical directions after that, but they are starting from a place that feels pretty identical. They also both have the dreamlike soundscape wash in their choruses. The verses do feel different musically, as there is a lot more life and movement in 7 Oclock.

The choruses of Seven Oclock, in particular, and coming from a similar place as SoH. It's not hard to envision these words being about the subject of that sogn

"Floodlight dreams go drifting past
All the lives we could've had
Distant loves floating above
Close these eyes, they've seen enough"

and

His best days gone, hard to admit
Throwing angry punches with nothing to hit
Luminous thoughts were once all he had
Fading lights, lost eloquence"

the difference is that you get the

"There's still a fire in the engine room
Knows relief will be coming soon"

sequence in Seven Oclock and there are no moments like that in SoH

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 5:37 pm
by tragabigzanda
pearl jam sucks now

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 8:44 pm
by Birds in Hell
Sleight of Hand
Help Help
Leash
Mankind
Release
Better Man
Army Reserve
In Hiding
Retrograde
The End
Yellow Moon

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 9:27 pm
by Kevin Davis
Kevin Davis wrote:Sleight of Hand
In Hiding
Release
Help Help
Army Reserve
Mankind
Better Man
The End
Leash
Retrograde
Yellow Moon
I feel like I put "Mankind" too low. Also I think this is the track number where my rankings least mirror how I'd rank the albums as a whole (except for having LB at the bottom).

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:03 pm
by EJ
I still really like this song.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:29 pm
by stip
You all have betterman WAY too low

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:32 pm
by epilogue
stip wrote:You all have betterman WAY too low
Even me?

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:32 pm
by EJ
stip wrote:You all have betterman WAY too low
Some day you’ll refer to it by the real name.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:33 pm
by epilogue
EJ wrote:
stip wrote:You all have betterman WAY too low
Some day you’ll refer to it by the real name.
I doubt it.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:41 pm
by Rob
I know Betterman (live) is a running joke here, but it's always been my absolute favorite Pearl Jam music.

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:54 pm
by stip
durdencommatyler wrote:
stip wrote:You all have betterman WAY too low
Even me?
yes, but not egregiously so

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:55 pm
by Ms Harmless
Release
Betterman
In Hiding
Leash
Help, Help
Mankind
Sleight of Hand
Retrograde
Army Reserve
The End
Yellow Moon

Re: Retrograde

Posted: Wed April 08, 2020 10:56 pm
by stip
while yellow moon is too low, Harmless got the top two right, at least.