Red Mosquito

Green Habit wrote:Clever.

This could be a really intense draft with the trades that might go down. Could see both Philly and San Diego doing something really crazy, as well as several other teams.

while i get that winston and mariota want to be with their families when their names are called, i think it's pretty lame that they won't be at the draft.

I just do not understand how/why so many people like one player over another because of the perception that one guy is a 'better' person. Just baffling. Since when does being a 'nice' guy make you better athlete? Confused.

I want my neighbor to be nice. Now I'm talking about the asshole level that Greg? Hardy is but I want the 'man' on my team to be asshole who dominates.

jwfocker wrote:I just do not understand how/why so many people like one player over another because of the perception that one guy is a 'better' person. Just baffling. Since when does being a 'nice' guy make you better athlete? Confused.

I want my neighbor to be nice. Now I'm talking about the asshole level that Greg? Hardy is but I want the 'man' on my team to be asshole who dominates

The issue at hand isn't being an asshole, it's being accused of one of the most serious crimes out there, one that's notoriously hard to get justice for and part of a subset that the NFL has been getting absolutely hammered upon for not paying more attention to. I know you're a Winston fan but there are legitimate reasons on why people are worried about him.

Green Habit wrote:

jwfocker wrote:I just do not understand how/why so many people like one player over another because of the perception that one guy is a 'better' person. Just baffling. Since when does being a 'nice' guy make you better athlete? Confused.

I want my neighbor to be nice. Now I'm talking about the asshole level that Greg? Hardy is but I want the 'man' on my team to be asshole who dominates

The issue at hand isn't being an asshole, it's being accused of one of the most serious crimes out there, one that's notoriously hard to get justice for and part of a subset that the NFL has been getting absolutely hammered upon for not paying more attention to. I know you're a Winston fan but there are legitimate reasons on why people are worried about him.

This.

Which also, obviously, connects directly to return on your investment. Who cares if Winston is the superior athlete if a year or two in to his contract he gets suspended or jailed or whatever and can't play. You risk damaging your franchise in the long run than helping it.

Green Habit wrote:

jwfocker wrote:I just do not understand how/why so many people like one player over another because of the perception that one guy is a 'better' person. Just baffling. Since when does being a 'nice' guy make you better athlete? Confused.

I want my neighbor to be nice. Now I'm talking about the asshole level that Greg? Hardy is but I want the 'man' on my team to be asshole who dominates

The issue at hand isn't being an asshole, it's being accused of one of the most serious crimes out there, one that's notoriously hard to get justice for and part of a subset that the NFL has been getting absolutely hammered upon for not paying more attention to. I know you're a Winston fan but there are legitimate reasons on why people are worried about him.

How many times does the guy need to be investigated then? four, five, six times? Anyway it's absurd. Her story is just that a story and its bullshit but she comes from a lot money and her lawyers have a lot of connections in the media. As a result this story won't go away for some time. This was close to becoming another Brian Banks situation. Thankfully it didn't.

jwfocker wrote:Tell me how many black men in the south have been helped by cops when they hook up with white women.

I'm guessing the grand majority of that small number are football stars.

OK, more seriously, let's find some common ground. I think that Winston is, far and away, the best QB in this draft. I honestly don't know if I'd take another QB in the top 10-20. There's a whole lot for the Bucs to gain in drafting him. All that I'm saying is that's there's a risk involved with this particular piece of history. Let's say Winston settles this lawsuit, and public pressure builds up again to the point that the NFL suspends him. You may think that Winston is being unfairly railroaded, but it wouldn't change his unavailability for the Bucs in that scenario. In the best case for the Bucs, this all blows over and they finally get the long-term QB that they've never had in franchise history. You may think that's the most likely scenario, and this makes this selection an easy one for you. But it's not an easy choice for me either way.

Meanwhile, just as I finished typing that...

I'm baffled anyone needs this situation explained to them.

Green Habit wrote:

jwfocker wrote:Tell me how many black men in the south have been helped by cops when they hook up with white women.

I'm guessing the grand majority of that small number are football stars.

OK, more seriously, let's find some common ground. I think that Winston is, far and away, the best QB in this draft. I honestly don't know if I'd take another QB in the top 10-20. There's a whole lot for the Bucs to gain in drafting him. All that I'm saying is that's there's a risk involved with this particular piece of history. Let's say Winston settles this lawsuit, and public pressure builds up again to the point that the NFL suspends him. You may think that Winston is being unfairly railroaded, but it wouldn't change his unavailability for the Bucs in that scenario. In the best case for the Bucs, this all blows over and they finally get the long-term QB that they've never had in franchise history. You may think that's the most likely scenario, and this makes this selection an easy one for you. But it's not an easy choice for me either way.

Way to insult Vinny Testaverde

Another horrible move by Goodell. This guy is really the worst.

Mecca wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

jwfocker wrote:Tell me how many black men in the south have been helped by cops when they hook up with white women.

I'm guessing the grand majority of that small number are football stars.

OK, more seriously, let's find some common ground. I think that Winston is, far and away, the best QB in this draft. I honestly don't know if I'd take another QB in the top 10-20. There's a whole lot for the Bucs to gain in drafting him. All that I'm saying is that's there's a risk involved with this particular piece of history. Let's say Winston settles this lawsuit, and public pressure builds up again to the point that the NFL suspends him. You may think that Winston is being unfairly railroaded, but it wouldn't change his unavailability for the Bucs in that scenario. In the best case for the Bucs, this all blows over and they finally get the long-term QB that they've never had in franchise history. You may think that's the most likely scenario, and this makes this selection an easy one for you. But it's not an easy choice for me either way.

Way to insult Vinny Testaverde

He's been on so many teams that sometimes it's hard to track.

Green Habit wrote:

Mecca wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

jwfocker wrote:Tell me how many black men in the south have been helped by cops when they hook up with white women.

I'm guessing the grand majority of that small number are football stars.

OK, more seriously, let's find some common ground. I think that Winston is, far and away, the best QB in this draft. I honestly don't know if I'd take another QB in the top 10-20. There's a whole lot for the Bucs to gain in drafting him. All that I'm saying is that's there's a risk involved with this particular piece of history. Let's say Winston settles this lawsuit, and public pressure builds up again to the point that the NFL suspends him. You may think that Winston is being unfairly railroaded, but it wouldn't change his unavailability for the Bucs in that scenario. In the best case for the Bucs, this all blows over and they finally get the long-term QB that they've never had in franchise history. You may think that's the most likely scenario, and this makes this selection an easy one for you. But it's not an easy choice for me either way.

Way to insult Vinny Testaverde

He's been on so many teams that sometimes it's hard to track.

Brad Johnson 4 lyfe

jwfocker wrote:How many times does the guy need to be investigated then? four, five, six times? Anyway it's absurd. Her story is just that a story and its bullshit but she comes from a lot money and her lawyers have a lot of connections in the media. As a result this story won't go away for some time. This was close to becoming another Brian Banks situation. Thankfully it didn't.

It's a good thing you were there and know exactly what happened. Yes, people on the other side don't either. But to suggest NFL teams considering drafting the guy should just not worry about it is kind of absurd.

FWIW Football Outsiders' version of the Lewin Forecast suggests Winston has a much higher chance of being a bust than Mariota. I've also read a few scouting guys that I respect who say that Brett Hundley is a better prospect as well. Winston is not Andrew Luck and his character concerns combined with these other factors make him far from a sure thing.

Orpheus wrote:

jwfocker wrote:How many times does the guy need to be investigated then? four, five, six times? Anyway it's absurd. Her story is just that a story and its bullshit but she comes from a lot money and her lawyers have a lot of connections in the media. As a result this story won't go away for some time. This was close to becoming another Brian Banks situation. Thankfully it didn't.

It's a good thing you were there and know exactly what happened. Yes, people on the other side don't either. But to suggest NFL teams considering drafting the guy should just not worry about it is kind of absurd.

FWIW Football Outsiders' version of the Lewin Forecast suggests Winston has a much higher chance of being a bust than Mariota. I've also read a few scouting guys that I respect who say that Brett Hundley is a better prospect as well. Winston is not Andrew Luck and his character concerns combined with these other factors make him far from a sure thing.

do you know off hand if they use something like the QBASE system to try and predict their bust status? if so then i would think the lopsided stats that Mariota put up in the spread offense probably skews that. i really think that in the right situations both of these guys will be great, if Tampa does take Winston and can get 1 maybe 2 starting OL in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds ( they could possibly get a starting quality tackle in the 2nd and there will be starting quality guards later) then i think with the Evans, Vjax and ASJ to throw to he will do very well. as much as i would still like the Bucs to take Mariota, that wouldnt be the right situation for him, really no one trading up to get him aside from Philly would be the right situation either, he needs the chance to sit for a bit and learn while the OC has a chance to learn how to use him as well. so to me the fact that a team will probably mortgage their future to move up and get him means they will start him right away and i can see him really struggling because of that so he would have the bigger bust potential IMO, but we will see

with the way the eagles off season has gone, im leaning toward them making a move for mariotta. i've read a few speculative trades, a couple involving 3 teams. nothing can surprise me at this point, chip kelly is a mad man and has complete control of this team. i hope he doesnt fuck it up.

Here's the full list of players to announce 2nd/3rd round picks:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... und-picks/

I expect Jim Kelly to get some huge applause. Also, although it doesn't seem like his style, I hope Donald Driver trolls the Bears fans when he enters the stage.

This fucking guy.

I'd love to see something like this go down. This could be an offseason for the ages