Red Mosquito

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I'm one of those people that just never wants any David Lynch scene to end. I can't imagine a scene of his that "goes on too long."

I do love those scenes that just streeeeeeeetch and fuck with your perception of how long you've been watching, how much attention you can keep, and so on--like almost anything in the Black Lodge, or the great scene with "Dougie" and his son at the breakfast table. But the scene with Michael Cera, for instance, dragged in a way where I just ended up bored. They ain't all hits, but the great ones are just so damn great.

The Michael Cera scene is one of my all time favorites in tv history!

That whole drawn out scene was worth it just for these lines:

Spoiler: show

My dharma is the road. Your dharma is....

Visions of washing machine in that character.

durdencommatyler wrote:I've certainly noticed the eyes as a theme, yes. But I hadn't connected any of that to Ed and Nadine in the way you're doing in your post. That's interesting. I wonder if it's too much "trying to make sense of David Lynch" though.

Was thinking about this on the can, and even though I share your urge to not "make sense" of what's going on at all times, I think it's important to suss out the themes, and gazing has been an important one this season (carried over from the original series, of course). One of the things that impacted me most from TOS was Leo's vacant gaze, and how everybody was convinced that he was catatonic, but in every one of those scenes you could feel him looking, as if he could see right through the camera into your soul. It was fucking horrifying. Already this season we've got the whole glass box setup where the cameras are gazing into it 24 hours a day, the toughs who were set up to spy on and murder "Dougie," the always-on-cameras of the casino (you can see them all on a screen over Brett Gelman's shoulder in the office, and he even points them out to Dougie-Coop to say "We always watching"), and there's even the male gaze of Cole and Rosenfield following the other agent as she walks away. I'm going to keep my eye on--wink wink!--this going forward.

I'm happy we have you on the team, ST.

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I've certainly noticed the eyes as a theme, yes. But I hadn't connected any of that to Ed and Nadine in the way you're doing in your post. That's interesting. I wonder if it's too much "trying to make sense of David Lynch" though.

Was thinking about this on the can, and even though I share your urge to not "make sense" of what's going on at all times, I think it's important to suss out the themes, and gazing has been an important one this season (carried over from the original series, of course). One of the things that impacted me most from TOS was Leo's vacant gaze, and how everybody was convinced that he was catatonic, but in every one of those scenes you could feel him looking, as if he could see right through the camera into your soul. It was fucking horrifying. Already this season we've got the whole glass box setup where the cameras are gazing into it 24 hours a day, the toughs who were set up to spy on and murder "Dougie," the always-on-cameras of the casino (you can see them all on a screen over Brett Gelman's shoulder in the office, and he even points them out to Dougie-Coop to say "We always watching"), and there's even the male gaze of Cole and Rosenfield following the other agent as she walks away. I'm going to keep my eye on--wink wink!--this going forward.

I totally agree. And I'm doing the same. This is exactly my approach to this show and all of David Lynch's work.

My comment was suggesting we shouldn't pay attention to theme. I've posted many times about theme regarding Lynch in general and Twin Peaks specifically.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I've certainly noticed the eyes as a theme, yes. But I hadn't connected any of that to Ed and Nadine in the way you're doing in your post. That's interesting. I wonder if it's too much "trying to make sense of David Lynch" though.

Was thinking about this on the can, and even though I share your urge to not "make sense" of what's going on at all times, I think it's important to suss out the themes, and gazing has been an important one this season (carried over from the original series, of course). One of the things that impacted me most from TOS was Leo's vacant gaze, and how everybody was convinced that he was catatonic, but in every one of those scenes you could feel him looking, as if he could see right through the camera into your soul. It was fucking horrifying. Already this season we've got the whole glass box setup where the cameras are gazing into it 24 hours a day, the toughs who were set up to spy on and murder "Dougie," the always-on-cameras of the casino (you can see them all on a screen over Brett Gelman's shoulder in the office, and he even points them out to Dougie-Coop to say "We always watching"), and there's even the male gaze of Cole and Rosenfield following the other agent as she walks away. I'm going to keep my eye on--wink wink!--this going forward.

I totally agree. And I'm doing the same. This is exactly my approach to this show and all of David Lynch's work.

My comment was suggesting we shouldn't pay attention to theme. I've posted many times about theme regarding Lynch in general and Twin Peaks specifically.

Hm, okay, I don't think I understood you at first. What I thought you meant (and how I like to approach works like Lynch's) is to primarily think about theme and to not worry or think too much about symbolism or plot machinations--they're intriguing and important at times, sure, but getting too caught up with them pulls me away from the core of how I think I can get the most out of them. I'm more interested in how the series, scene-to-scene, resonates as opposed to what it "means" or what's going to happen, if that makes any sense.

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I've certainly noticed the eyes as a theme, yes. But I hadn't connected any of that to Ed and Nadine in the way you're doing in your post. That's interesting. I wonder if it's too much "trying to make sense of David Lynch" though.

Was thinking about this on the can, and even though I share your urge to not "make sense" of what's going on at all times, I think it's important to suss out the themes, and gazing has been an important one this season (carried over from the original series, of course). One of the things that impacted me most from TOS was Leo's vacant gaze, and how everybody was convinced that he was catatonic, but in every one of those scenes you could feel him looking, as if he could see right through the camera into your soul. It was fucking horrifying. Already this season we've got the whole glass box setup where the cameras are gazing into it 24 hours a day, the toughs who were set up to spy on and murder "Dougie," the always-on-cameras of the casino (you can see them all on a screen over Brett Gelman's shoulder in the office, and he even points them out to Dougie-Coop to say "We always watching"), and there's even the male gaze of Cole and Rosenfield following the other agent as she walks away. I'm going to keep my eye on--wink wink!--this going forward.

I totally agree. And I'm doing the same. This is exactly my approach to this show and all of David Lynch's work.

My comment was suggesting we shouldn't pay attention to theme. I've posted many times about theme regarding Lynch in general and Twin Peaks specifically.

Hm, okay, I don't think I understood you at first. What I thought you meant (and how I like to approach works like Lynch's) is to primarily think about theme and to not worry or think too much about symbolism or plot machinations--they're intriguing and important at times, sure, but getting too caught up with them pulls me away from the core of how I think I can get the most out of them. I'm more interested in how the series, scene-to-scene, resonates as opposed to what it "means" or what's going to happen, if that makes any sense.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you now, it seems like we're 100% on the same page.

Theme is good. Red herrings are distracting. Sometimes Lynch intentionally blurs the line between the two, which makes for a fun viewing experience. Pretty much sum it up for you two?

Well, ST is way smarter than me, so I need him to weigh in on that before I commit to an answer because my instinct is to say that I don't believe in "red herrings" in David Lynch's work.

I'm with Joey on the idea of "red herrings." That phrase implies that Lynch intentionally is trying to "trick" or "fool" us--but I do think, as Reid's suggesting, that there's blurring going on with how systems of signification and symbology work; sometimes, this can be misconstrued as a red herring. What I mean is that Lynch will use images, sounds, actions, rituals, etc. that come pre-packaged with meaning and resonance in our culture, but he's emptying them out of their symbolic meaning instead of relying on those tropes. So there's a lot of undercutting of expectations, and a big search for meaning, when really I think most of the time he's just trying to have fun or to make an impact; very post-structuralist. Does that make sense? I don't think this is a big revolutionary reading of Lynch's work, btw--I've seen others write and talk about it over the years--but what I think is impressive is that it still all seems to work for him.

Simple Torture wrote:I'm with Joey on the idea of "red herrings." That phrase implies that Lynch intentionally is trying to "trick" or "fool" us--but I do think, as Reid's suggesting, that there's blurring going on with how systems of signification and symbology work; sometimes, this can be misconstrued as a red herring. What I mean is that Lynch will use images, sounds, actions, rituals, etc. that come pre-packaged with meaning and resonance in our culture, but he's emptying them out of their symbolic meaning instead of relying on those tropes. So there's a lot of undercutting of expectations, and a big search for meaning, when really I think most of the time he's just trying to have fun or to make an impact; very post-structuralist. Does that make sense? I don't think this is a big revolutionary reading of Lynch's work, btw--I've seen others write and talk about it over the years--but what I think is impressive is that it still all seems to work for him.

Bingo.

Again, I'm totally with you. The subverting and/or undercutting of expectations is one of my favorite Lynchian qualities.

This is a cool video about how Lynch deals with expectations in Mullholland Drive (*SPOILERS* obviously, if you haven't seen it):

I look forward to watching that before work tomorrow.

Hey ST, wasn't there a few scenes regarding a Twin Peaks videotape or script somewhere in 2666? I vaguely remember a scene like that, but I read the novel before I really got into this series. It'd be interesting to go back and read that and also DFW's Lynch essay.

washing machine wrote:I look forward to watching that before work tomorrow.

Hey ST, wasn't there a few scenes regarding a Twin Peaks videotape or script somewhere in 2666? I vaguely remember a scene like that, but I read the novel before I really got into this series. It'd be interesting to go back and read that and also DFW's Lynch essay.

durdencommatyler wrote:

washing machine wrote:I look forward to watching that before work tomorrow.

Hey ST, wasn't there a few scenes regarding a Twin Peaks videotape or script somewhere in 2666? I vaguely remember a scene like that, but I read the novel before I really got into this series. It'd be interesting to go back and read that and also DFW's Lynch essay.

Here's all I could find thru a quick search on 2666. I swear there was more, but I'm probably misremembering it. I really need to read 2666 again. The quote I'm pasting below ties in nicely with my newfound love for "is it future...or is it past?" quote/theme.

"'Every single thing in this country is an homage to everything in the world, even the things that haven’t happened yet,' he said."

The DFW essay is in A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again. DFW gets access to the set of Lost Highway and does his thing for 67 pages.
If you want to steal it, you can print this - https://www.scribd.com/doc/27992934/Dav ... s-His-Head

Sweet! Thanks, Reid.

May the road rise up to meet your wheels, Joey.

I'm going to have to search 2666 later. The DFW essay is great, I read it before I even saw Lost Highway and still enjoyed it.

Pretty sure that essay was the impetus for me to watch Lynch productions in the first place.