Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

harmless wrote:Ed has always self-referenced. I'm OK with it. I'd rather that than him trying to write something with a new subject. Johnny Guitar is the furthest he got.

and i don't want him to go there again. jg was awful. much worse than inside job.

Ed is too boring to be self referencing. Make some interesting shit up, I say.

He's "too boring" and yet you want him to make "interesting shit" up? Good luck with that.

If Ed self-references, he can only be as boring as the original songs imo. Anything that self-references my favourite PJ songs is at least worth giving a go. I also think Johnny Guitar was the best song on Backspacer, but it was most definitely a witty pop song and I wouldn't want it to represent Pearl Jam.

I'm not interested in a rich 50 year old family man's self references. I think the better choice would be to dream up some interesting things to say rather than Future Days type subject matter. Hopefully we get more of that...

What makes you think he'll suddenly come up with new and interesting things to say after the last two albums? I really wish people would stop bringing up the rich 50 year old family man crap.

He's boring an uninteresting to me as a person, that's all. Its not his fault. Younger Eddie was at least interesting. Its okay to fake it through some lyrics at 50 if it means we don't have to listen to love songs to his model wife and kids.

I don't give a shit whether he's 50 and rich, or his wife is a model. Being married and having kids is fucking wonderful and I don't mind if he sings about it. The experience isn't less true because he's rich and his wife is a model. Maybe you'd feel differently if you were a model.

Or maybe if I was one rolled up in blood.

Is that it? He's abandoned all his principles by marrying someone who models underwear for a living?

I don't care that hes married to someone hot and much taller than him, I just think its boring subject matter for a Pearl Jam song.

this may sound patronizing, but I can deal with the inside job lyrics because mike doesn't normally write lyrics, it was personal to him, etc. It doesn't make them good, but it's kinda like hanging up your kids artwork on the fridge. Supersonic is less excusable because it is also written by the same guy who wrote force of nature and speed of sound and johnny guitar on the same album

Yeah, but Mike isn't your kid, or one of your students. He's a professional fucking musician.

Yeah, that decision was not made with the fans or product in mind, that is for sure. There had to have been a way to make Mike feel good that was more respectful to us as the listeners.

so what you're saying is that PJ needs to focus more on giving the fans what they want

That's not at all what he said. You can forgive Mike for writing shitty lyrics because he's not very good at it, but that doesn't mean the band has to coddle to him and put it out on a professional release.

I'm not mad at Mike for writing Inside Job. But fuck, it didn't need to see the light of day either.

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

harmless wrote:Ed has always self-referenced. I'm OK with it. I'd rather that than him trying to write something with a new subject. Johnny Guitar is the furthest he got.

and i don't want him to go there again. jg was awful. much worse than inside job.

Ed is too boring to be self referencing. Make some interesting shit up, I say.

He's "too boring" and yet you want him to make "interesting shit" up? Good luck with that.

If Ed self-references, he can only be as boring as the original songs imo. Anything that self-references my favourite PJ songs is at least worth giving a go. I also think Johnny Guitar was the best song on Backspacer, but it was most definitely a witty pop song and I wouldn't want it to represent Pearl Jam.

I'm not interested in a rich 50 year old family man's self references. I think the better choice would be to dream up some interesting things to say rather than Future Days type subject matter. Hopefully we get more of that...

What makes you think he'll suddenly come up with new and interesting things to say after the last two albums? I really wish people would stop bringing up the rich 50 year old family man crap.

He's boring an uninteresting to me as a person, that's all. Its not his fault. Younger Eddie was at least interesting. Its okay to fake it through some lyrics at 50 if it means we don't have to listen to love songs to his model wife and kids.

I don't give a shit whether he's 50 and rich, or his wife is a model. Being married and having kids is fucking wonderful and I don't mind if he sings about it. The experience isn't less true because he's rich and his wife is a model. Maybe you'd feel differently if you were a model.

Or maybe if I was one rolled up in blood.

Is that it? He's abandoned all his principles by marrying someone who models underwear for a living?

I don't care that hes married to someone hot and much taller than him, I just think its boring subject matter for a Pearl Jam song.

this may sound patronizing, but I can deal with the inside job lyrics because mike doesn't normally write lyrics, it was personal to him, etc. It doesn't make them good, but it's kinda like hanging up your kids artwork on the fridge. Supersonic is less excusable because it is also written by the same guy who wrote force of nature and speed of sound and johnny guitar on the same album

Yeah, but Mike isn't your kid, or one of your students. He's a professional fucking musician.

Yeah, that decision was not made with the fans or product in mind, that is for sure. There had to have been a way to make Mike feel good that was more respectful to us as the listeners.

so what you're saying is that PJ needs to focus more on giving the fans what they want

They're not giving us anything. We have to pay for it.

we have a tendency to excuse shitty lyrics in rock music more than we should. How come we just don't care if a line sounds nice in poetry. There isn't necessarily a concern of matching things up to music, but there is still a meter to worry about and all the rest.

The lyrics are the moment in a song when the artist can usually do the most explicit and concrete job conveying what they want to convey. And the words they use to convey that are just as important a part of a song to me as anything else. They aren't the whole story, but they're an important part of it.

When you watch movies do you not listen to dialogue?

This whole argument is starting to piss me off.

stip wrote:
When you watch movies do you not listen to dialogue?

Nice try

cutuphalfdead wrote:This whole argument is starting to piss me off.

this thread will cheer you up

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:
When you watch movies do you not listen to dialogue?

Nice try

Seriously.

stip vs. centuries of instrumental music

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:This whole argument is starting to piss me off.

this thread will cheer you up

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:
When you watch movies do you not listen to dialogue?

Nice try

you have all those visuals that can convey meaning, and the sound of the actors voice. If anything, the dialogue should be even less important because you have that visual element. If the presence of sound makes the meaning of words matter less, then the more senses we add the less important they should be

Who do you guys think put more effort into Backspacer's lyrics? Ed writing them or Stip analyzing them? Hint:

Spoiler: show

Not Ed

i missed all the fun this evening, but the track list looks nice

I'm tired and cranky, and stip is wrong. This is a terrible combination.

theplatypus wrote:stip vs. centuries of instrumental music

I'm not saying instrumentals are somehow less valid (although I personally like them less). But once you add the lyrics they are a part of the song and should be taken seriously as such.

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:
When you watch movies do you not listen to dialogue?

Nice try

you have all those visuals that can convey meaning, and the sound of the actors voice. If anything, the dialogue should be even less important because you have that visual element. If the presence of sound makes the meaning of words matter less, then the more senses we add the less important they should be

No

It's 2.43 am here. I might go to bed.

I'm also not saying that all lyrics have to be serious. they have to be appropriate for whatever the song is trying to do.

stip wrote:

theplatypus wrote:But once you add the lyrics they are a part of the song and should be taken seriously as such.

Yet you give Mike a pass because it's his adorable attempt.

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:
When you watch movies do you not listen to dialogue?

Nice try

you have all those visuals that can convey meaning, and the sound of the actors voice. If anything, the dialogue should be even less important because you have that visual element. If the presence of sound makes the meaning of words matter less, then the more senses we add the less important they should be

No

that's not a very impressive response. Perhaps if you set it to music it would matter less.

Guys it's not black and white. But usually if the music is good you can forgive bad lyrics. It's hardly ever the other way round.