Red Mosquito

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:It didn't kill the past, it exploited it.

This from the biggest TROS apologist in either galaxy?

Even that kid with the broom was like, "Why the fuck is the Emperor back?"

What?

Are we not talking about The Mandalorian?

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:It didn't kill the past, it exploited it.

This from the biggest TROS apologist in either galaxy?

Even that kid with the broom was like, "Why the fuck is the Emperor back?"

What?

Are we not talking about The Mandalorian?

ok.

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:It didn't kill the past, it exploited it.

This from the biggest TROS apologist in either galaxy?

Even that kid with the broom was like, "Why the fuck is the Emperor back?"

What?

Are we not talking about The Mandalorian?

ok.

I'm so confused.

Didn’t you make a thread for this kind of abuse, B?

Are we ranking the episodes

16
14
13
9
15
8
7
11
1
6
12
10
2
3
4
5

dimejinky99 wrote:Didn’t you make a thread for this kind of abuse, B?

It's no fun picking on Joey b/c he has figured out that he can pretend to not understand what's going on until you feel like you're arguing with a lost grandma.

B wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Didn’t you make a thread for this kind of abuse, B?

It's no fun picking on Joey b/c he has figured out that he can pretend to not understand what's going on until you feel like you're arguing with a lost grandma.

To be fair, I genuinely didn't understand our last interaction here. That wasn't a bit. Your last post inn the exchange didn't make sense and didn't address my point.

Not that I trust you, but ...

You accused Mandalorian of exploiting the past, which maybe it did some, especially in Season Two, but I don't understand how a huge fan of TROS can have a problem with that, b/c TROS is a 2.5 hour club of exploited past, beating us all in the head.

TROS's fan service is both more prolific and more sloppy than anything in Mandalorian.

You're making a lot of assumptions there. Where in my initial post did I say I had a problem with it?

I was arguing with the thesis statement of the video you posted. I'm not saying that's a bad thing necessarily, just arguing that the video is wrong.

I'd also encourage you to look at it from the other side. Why aren't you bothered by it in The Mandalorian when it so clearly bothers you in the TRoS?

Perhaps the answer is, because of the way it's done in each.

Checkmate.

epilogue wrote:I'd also encourage you to look at it from the other side. Why aren't you bothered by it in The Mandalorian when it so clearly bothers you in the TRoS?

Because in the Mandalorian the callbacks are either part of the scenery, B-plots, or specifically introduced to further the new story.

In The Rise of Skywalker the story appears to have been written to justify the inclusion of the callbacks.

Guys, please.
Joey is a superfan of the sequels. Im super happy that he is such a fan of Rey, Finn and that gang. It also made me understand his love of other art and movies too.

B is not a fan of the sequels. He hates that gang. He prefers to buy purple pj vinyl.

Just let it go.

Let the past die.

That's unfair. I liked TFA and TLJ quite a lot.

I also have no complaints about Rey, Finn, or Poe.

ok, you are not a fan of tros.

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:I'd also encourage you to look at it from the other side. Why aren't you bothered by it in The Mandalorian when it so clearly bothers you in the TRoS?

Because in the Mandalorian the callbacks are either part of the scenery, B-plots, or specifically introduced to further the new story.

In The Rise of Skywalker the story appears to have been written to justify the inclusion of the callbacks.

Obviously I disagree.

The past -- how it impacts us, what we chose to use or reject from it, what it makes of us, what we make of it -- is a key theme to the entire ST. Evoking the past is necessary for journey and the story being told. It's valuable to us (the audience) and essential to the characters on screen. Story echoes sing for me because it's so intimately connected to that theme.

And real life has made it more powerful. One hundred years ago a deadly pandemic swept the nation. Two hundred years ago the US Capitol was attacked. History repeats. We know this. But what do we do with it. How do we handle the past? It's a powerful thing.

The Mandalorian works best when it looks forward -- when it expands on the universe. The whole thing with the Madalorian taking off his helmet is a good example. John Favreau made up something in his mind as he played with his action figures and wrote stories in his notebook -- Boba Fett can't take off his helmet! Canon contradicted that and rather than try to retcon anything, Filoni used it to make something new and excited, the build the world and expand the universe.

Where the show stumbles, for me, is its reliance on nostalgia. The iconography never feels earned, it just feels like a cheap storytelling trick. Here we are on Tatooine again. Why? Because it's important to our central character? The show is essentially fan fiction written from the point of view of a kid with action figures. It's meant to appeal to people who spent the 80s and 90's fetishizing Jedi would could pull Star Destroyers from the sky, who played with their Boba Fett and RotJ Luke Skywalker action figures, who immersed themselves in RPG video games. Many critics want to say that Star Wars is just about selling toys. They use that as a primary criticism for the ST. Meanwhile... here's a show that's literally all about action figures and they love it! Why? Because it works for them. Because this is the Star Wars they wanted to see when they themselves were playing out adventures with their own toys. They wanted badass Boba Fett. They wanted JEDI MASTER LUKE SKYWALKER. This show is the epitome of a certain kind of fan service. It exists to give those fans their fantasy. Rarely though, does any of that matter to the story, to the themes being explored, or to the characters living it out on screen.

Part of the reason the Ahsoka episode works is because it abandons all of that stuff. When it recalls the past it does so with an eye on theme and an eye on character. Ahsoka evokes Anakin not because it's a fun name drop or fan service, but because Grogu is at an important point in his development. He's powerful. But he's selfish. He's angry. He uses his powers to get what he wants and his attachments make him even more vulnerable to the Dark Side. This is a theme they explore through all of S2. It's of course natural then for Ahsoka to remember her former teacher who fell for these exact same reasons.

And let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with any of what The Mandalorian is doing -- nostalgia for nostalgia's sake, action figure fever dreams, taking back legends that were stripped from canon. All of that in and of itself isn't good or bad. It just doesn't appeal to me as much. Sometimes it works (Boba Fett finally being the deadly badass that we'd heard about). But most of the time it doesn't.

You prefer the Mandalorian's brand of fan service. That's great. You can enjoy that and I can enjoy the ST's brand of fan service. The latter works for me because it's rooted in theme and character. And it's personal. As someone who didn't connect with Star Wars until much later, those themes are highly impactful. I am Rey. I am somehow who heard the stories, dreamed that the Force could possibly be real. When the Force awakens in her, it did the same in me as I sat in the theater feeling captivated, finally feeling a part of an adventure (and frankly a fan community) that I hadn't felt a part of before. It was exciting to finally be there with so many others. Or so I thought. Turns out a lot of them were not there with me.

But that's not your journey. That's not your experience with Star Wars. So be it. I'll never tell you that you're wrong for liking what you like. It's weird that such a simple courtesy is so difficult to reciprocate. But whatever. Some people can't talk about the thing they like unless it's at the expense of something they don't. That's just modern discourse and I have to get over it. I never should have let that get to me in the first place. That's on me.

There's plenty of positive, interesting debate and conversation to be had. For my part, I'll try to engage there. I'll choose to celebrate Star Wars and that includes The Mandalorian, even though I often think it doesn't totally work. I'll think critically about the stuff that doesn't and celebrate the stuff that does.

I'm not reading all that, Joey. This is the fucking Internet.

Guys.
They had to borrow from the past to reboot Star Wars in the sequels.
They again had to for the Mandalorian to reorientate the audience in that world.
This isn’t hard to grasp. You might not like it but mileage varies on this stuff.

If you get down to the nuts and bolts it’s really all about design language and what is Star Wars? Stray even a little way away from the established aesthetic and it isn’t Star Wars.
Easter eggs and call backs are only noticed by hardcore fans. So leave those aside.
Almost the entire majority don’t even notice them. Fans do. It’s not about that.
There’s an established look and feel to Star Wars. It’s vital to it working.
There’s several essential elements that simply have to be there right now.
To switch gears, up to people having a problem with oh Fuck they ruined it. Ringing in skywalker? Firstly, just fuck off.
Secondly, again, they have to place people and give them ground under the feet to know where they are in the timeline. Something they didn’t do in the first season. At all. Still have people asking me when it’s set.
It’s all one story. It’s one big narrative with numerous threads running through it. We have to remember that.

We’re headed into a new era with new films and series coming. That’s when it’ll change up and it could run the risk of straying from All that. I hope it Doesn’t. They might decide to though to give it a fresh look or direction. They’d be crazy to but let’s see.

I’ve forgotten what I was replying to. But anyways.


Quit your bitching. Only a few short years ago we were never getting Star Wars again.
Be grateful.

B wrote:I'm not reading all that, Joey. This is the fucking Internet.

#shocking

I can understand both sides of this conversation.

About 85 percent of the Mandalorian takes place on completely new or relatively unexplored planets/locales, so I wouldn't say it is overly reliant on nostalgia. The Tatooine episodes are probably the weakest in the whole series.

Monkey_Driven wrote:I can understand both sides of this conversation.

About 85 percent of the Mandalorian takes place on completely new or relatively unexplored planets/locales, so I wouldn't say it is overly reliant on nostalgia. The Tatooine episodes are probably the weakest the whole series.

For me, the issue isn't locale or new/old planets. That's not at all what I mean when I talk about exploiting or being reliant on nostalgia. There's no reason to avoid the familiar just because it's familiar. I'm not even talking about saying things like "highest 'm' count we've ever seen" or even the fact Boba Fett (though I do think he walks the line a bit).

Like, including Luke Skywalker wasn't a about relying on nostalgia. His appearance was necessary for the story being told. He is what the story required. If it had been any other Jedi it might have been super weird. Luke was the right and necessary story choice.

Now, was doing a shot-for-shot remake of the *one* post-OT scene that was touted by the vast majority of SW fans necessary for the story? To me it didn't work. It reeked of the kind of fan service (which, again, isn't a bad thing in and of itself) that I don't like, that the show keeps dipping into.