Red Mosquito

looks like they do general merch.

I wonder what the going rate for poster design is to contextualize this form of payment. I suspect part of the contract is you cant print posters/band owns the design. So i can see there being some value in receiving copies of your own work to sell. But as a primary means of payment that feels a little icky, and the comments in the article are right. Artists do often get screwed with the ‘exposure’ logic.

stip wrote:looks like they do general merch.

I wonder what the going rate for poster design is to contextualize this form of payment. I suspect part of the contract is you cant print posters/band owns the design. So i can see there being some value in receiving copies of your own work to sell. But as a primary means of payment that feels a little icky, and the comments in the article are right. Artists do often get screwed with the ‘exposure’ logic.

Sounds a bit like those "if you let me eat for free, I'll promote you on my tiktok" grift that social media influencers use.

it's not exactly the same (though it's not totally different) since there is a genuine potentially lucrative secondary market for PJ posters, but making someone then have to put in an extra level of work to be paid, even if they might ultimately make more (?), doesn't seem great.

it doesnt sound great. i just try to be a somewhat measured voice in a hyperbolic forum

Is there no end to the disgusting money-grabbing corporation that is Pearl Jam in 2024? Lock em up and throw away the key

tragabigzanda wrote:Stip there’s no need for you to try to find some sort of moral grey area just because you love Pearl Jam. Taking the story implications at face value (I’m blocked without a subscription), this is the sort of fully extractive capitalist behavior the band used to rail against, and it’s extremely fucking shitty.

I don't think you need a subscription. Just bypass the warning that pops up. I was able to read the whole thing.

You would think fair compensation would be a monetary amount PLUS 100 posters that you could sell on your own.

blueviper wrote:You would think fair compensation would be a monetary amount PLUS 100 posters that you could sell on your own.

you would think so.

blueviper wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:Stip there’s no need for you to try to find some sort of moral grey area just because you love Pearl Jam. Taking the story implications at face value (I’m blocked without a subscription), this is the sort of fully extractive capitalist behavior the band used to rail against, and it’s extremely fucking shitty.

I don't think you need a subscription. Just bypass the warning that pops up. I was able to read the whole thing.

Me too.
I can see how it could be the case that some artists would think this isn't such a bad deal. But I suspect the risks/potential rewards balance differently for artists outside of the US where the market is much smaller and there isn't an established poster collector culture.

Realistically, the NZ-based artist is probably going to primarily be selling her stuff to US-based Pearl Jam fans (with the postage costs that entails) and also probably nowhere near as lucratively as someone who designs a poster for a show in NYC or Chicago.

blueviper wrote:You would think fair compensation would be a monetary amount PLUS 100 posters that you could sell on your own.

I think that seems like a more palatable solution.

It's also a bit bizarre how adamantly people in the comments insist the band must absolutely not be aware of the practice and will be shocked when they find out. I mean, it's possible they let a third party handle this stuff with absolutely no awareness of how the sausage gets made, but that seems very unlikely to me.

lecherouslittlestump wrote:Is there no end to the disgusting money-grabbing corporation that is Pearl Jam in 2024? Lock em up and throw away the key

PRAMG

Post Riot Act Merch Grift

Birds in Hell wrote: It's also a bit bizarre how adamantly people in the comments insist the band must absolutely not be aware of the practice and will be shocked when they find out. I mean, it's possible they let a third party handle this stuff with absolutely no awareness of how the sausage gets made, but that seems very unlikely to me.

Really? I think it's pretty likely. It's like hiring a production house to make your music video or marketing materials. You don't know how they compensate their individual employees or freelance contributors and why would you

Birds in Hell wrote:Realistically, the NZ-based artist is probably going to primarily be selling her stuff to US-based Pearl Jam fans (with the postage costs that entails) and also probably nowhere near as lucratively as someone who designs a poster for a show in NYC or Chicago.

this.

Jorge wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote: It's also a bit bizarre how adamantly people in the comments insist the band must absolutely not be aware of the practice and will be shocked when they find out. I mean, it's possible they let a third party handle this stuff with absolutely no awareness of how the sausage gets made, but that seems very unlikely to me.

Really? I think it's pretty likely. It's like hiring a production house to make your music video or marketing materials. You don't know how they compensate their individual employees or freelance contributors and why would you

I don't think that comparison works here.

Though TSURT seem to handle the admin and manufacturing side of the posters/merch, it appears to be at the direction of the band/artist/management - that is, which artists are selected isn't something determined by TSURT, at least not without some instructions from the band. I would expect this would also extend to the terms on which the poster artists get paid, given that could work in any number of ways (and apparently does, if that Tweet I linked earlier is accurate).

I realise the wording isn't explicit, but the emails from the TSURT guy indicate (or strongly imply) this approach arises from a specific instruction by Pearl Jam and that other bands may take a different approach:

Yes, this is correct for the compensation. Each artist gets 100 prints to sell. These are the only prints that are numbered and signed and have a different color swap out. Artists typically sell their prints for $80 - $120 and sell out very quickly. I understand that this is somewhat of a different means of compensation but every artist that has done a print for Pearl Jam has been very happy with the results.

Based on your email it is best for us to move on and work with another artist. I can say that Pearl Jam is the most artist friendly band out there.

As ever with PJ Inc., the most unsettling part is the way they just completely shut down anyone who gives off even the slightest whiff of disagreement with the band's management practices. "Let me think this over so I can see if it's a good decision for my business." "Nope, the fact that you think of yourself as a business equal and would dream of having a response other than groveling for this opportunity clearly proves that you're not one of us, so we'll go find someone who is." Maybe there is missing context, and maybe they needed to move quicker than her mulling would have allowed, but still...the whole thing gives off weird "don't you dare question us" vibes that feels out of step with the band's values and just seems uncomfortable. I'd feel weird about doing business with someone like that regardless of the payment method.

I played live music for years and played "for exposure" more times than I'm proud to admit. This isn't exactly that, but it kind of is: "We won't pay you, but your connection to us will make it more desireable for someone else to pay you later." Now, a connection to PJ (especially since the product itself comes with a built-in collectible element) is more valuable than a connection to some random bar or coffee shop, and at least PJ is covering the cost of the materials, but still -- as an artist, at some point, it becomes a personal victory to learn to silence that chorus of voices telling you that everyone else is doing you the favor by letting you use their stage to share your art with the world. I'm sure it stung to have the offer rescinded in the way it was, but in my view, Jess dodged a bullet.

Birds in Hell wrote: I realise the wording isn't explicit, but the emails from the TSURT guy indicate (or strongly imply) this approach arises from a specific instruction by Pearl Jam

It is of course completely in TSURT's best interest to give off this impression!

Jorge wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote: I realise the wording isn't explicit, but the emails from the TSURT guy indicate (or strongly imply) this approach arises from a specific instruction by Pearl Jam

It is of course completely in TSURT's best interest to give off this impression!

Absolutely.

But it simply can’t be a standard approach because it would never work for any band that doesn’t have an ingrained (and slightly unhinged) collector culture.

lol to think i made a joke about Boom being paid with black t-shirts the other day and now there is a non-zero probability that is actually the case

fr tho i really hope they give him year-round healthcare