Red Mosquito

wease wrote:“Vaguely” threatening? He’s not being very vague at all.

He’s being vague enough so as to not be held directly responsible. Even though it’s obvious what he’s doing and who he means.

Bammer wrote:If the media didn’t blast him in front of us 24/7 he would have faded away a very long time ago

This is both naive and one of the meanest things I have ever seen written about conservative voters.

tragabigzanda wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Bammer wrote:If the media didn’t blast him in front of us 24/7 he would have faded away a very long time ago

This is both naive and one of the meanest things I have ever seen written about conservative voters.

Don’t think this is naive at all. Both parties are only interested in news that confirms their biases; no one who watches fox or msnbc actually wants to be challenged.

So yes they blast trump because he provokes feelings of resentment that already exist for the audience.

1. What you are describing is a human trait, not a party one, and it affects independent voters every bit as much as party voters. It affects us outside of politics, as well: our brains are wired to prefer information that confirms our priors. That is a fact of our existence that no political position can free you from.

2. I think you are arguing your point instead of Bammer’s. What he asserted was a causal relationship between mainstream media coverage and Trump’s maintained relevance.

My problem with that is two-fold: first, Trump’s maintained relevance is directly tied to his continued status as de facto leader of one of America’s predominant political parties. So I can’t help feeling that the implication is that the majority of Republican voters are entirely divorced from ideology and are almost ferally reactive….their support is causally drawn by media coverage above all else. If the media didn’t talk about him, they wouldn’t support him. I don’t know how Bammer’s sentence could be interpreted otherwise, because he asserts that Trump would fade away and Trump can’t fade away while he’s also the nominee.

My other problem with this is that it doesn’t hold up. I remember reading a media study around the start of the year demonstrating that for a 14 month period starting in late 2021, coverage of Trump was down around 80% from his presidency years. There was the Supreme Court, potential government shutdowns, Biden, Ukraine, MGT, etc…other stuff to talk about.

The result was that TV mainstream news ratings plummeted (to your point), NOT that Trump’s hold on a major political party waned in any way (re:Bammer’s).

dimejinky99 wrote:

wease wrote:“Vaguely” threatening? He’s not being very vague at all.

He’s being vague enough so as to not be held directly responsible. Even though it’s obvious what he’s doing and who he means.

Not directly responsible? “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!” Puts responsibility right at his feet.

I just read that Barron Trump is already 6-foot-7 at age 15. Crazy.

So his trial is going to be televised after all?

This will be golden.

For weeks Trump lawyers have been demanding, the Jan 6 insurrection trial is televised — fully aware that it would not be, as federal law prevents it.

But by constantly talking about it, Trump could give his MAGA crowd the impression, the state is trying to cover up a sham trial.

But today the Democrats have signed a document requesting from the Judicial Conference that the proceedings are televised.

Trump walked right into the trap — priceless!

the ratings will be the best ever in the history of television.

Spoiler: show

many people will say that.

Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

I don’t know, but Turley (GW Law) has a decent explanation of why this might end up with the DC Circuit judge rushing a trial (trump magically just happens to get the judge who is sending a bunch of the J6 rioters to jail) and the appellate/supremes tossing it as unconstitutional. IIRC in the Georgia case the evidence so far known much more clearly indicates an illegal conspiracy and fraud vs a sociopath seeking out lawyers who tell him what he wants to hear even if it’s obviously untrue and his long term confidants are telling him it’s untrue

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

I don’t know, but Turley (GW Law) has a decent explanation of why this might end up with the DC Circuit judge rushing a trial (trump magically just happens to get the judge who is sending a bunch of the J6 rioters to jail) and the appellate/supremes tossing it as unconstitutional. IIRC in the Georgia case the evidence so far known much more clearly indicates an illegal conspiracy and fraud vs a sociopath seeking out lawyers who tell him what he wants to hear even if it’s obviously untrue and his long term confidants are telling him it’s untrue

Fairly certain the Georgia stuff is in the indictment

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

I don’t know, but Turley (GW Law) has a decent explanation of why this might end up with the DC Circuit judge rushing a trial (trump magically just happens to get the judge who is sending a bunch of the J6 rioters to jail) and the appellate/supremes tossing it as unconstitutional. IIRC in the Georgia case the evidence so far known much more clearly indicates an illegal conspiracy and fraud vs a sociopath seeking out lawyers who tell him what he wants to hear even if it’s obviously untrue and his long term confidants are telling him it’s untrue

Fairly certain the Georgia stuff is in the indictment

If this is truly all there is, and perhaps it’s just that more will presented at trial, then maybe Georgia isn’t as clear cut because none of this is beyond doubt if Trump truly believed he could still win through a fair and legal process and that there truly was significant fraud despite what local and federal officials said

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/08 ... ctment-dg/

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

I don’t know, but Turley (GW Law) has a decent explanation of why this might end up with the DC Circuit judge rushing a trial (trump magically just happens to get the judge who is sending a bunch of the J6 rioters to jail) and the appellate/supremes tossing it as unconstitutional. IIRC in the Georgia case the evidence so far known much more clearly indicates an illegal conspiracy and fraud vs a sociopath seeking out lawyers who tell him what he wants to hear even if it’s obviously untrue and his long term confidants are telling him it’s untrue

Fairly certain the Georgia stuff is in the indictment

If this is truly all there is, and perhaps it’s just that more will presented at trial, then maybe Georgia isn’t as clear cut because none of this is beyond doubt if Trump truly believed he could still win through a fair and legal process and that there truly was significant fraud despite what local and federal officials said

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/08 ... ctment-dg/

Why does it matter if it’s proven that Trump “truly believed” he won or could still win? If I do or don’t truly believe someone murdered a member of my family and I kill that person, then I still committed the crime. All that should have to be proven is whether or not he did what he is accused of.

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

I don’t know, but Turley (GW Law) has a decent explanation of why this might end up with the DC Circuit judge rushing a trial (trump magically just happens to get the judge who is sending a bunch of the J6 rioters to jail) and the appellate/supremes tossing it as unconstitutional. IIRC in the Georgia case the evidence so far known much more clearly indicates an illegal conspiracy and fraud vs a sociopath seeking out lawyers who tell him what he wants to hear even if it’s obviously untrue and his long term confidants are telling him it’s untrue

do you think that is going to effect the judge's ability to remain neutral?

wease wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Strat wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Is he going for a mistrial with all the crazy posts on his social media? Or just trying to the latest crop of lawyers to walk off away from him?
What’s the play? Other than He knows he fucked

There is still a significant chance the charges are tossed as these are very “creative” allegations and it only takes one juror to acquit. The whole thing is unprecedented. Probably why the Georgia case is being saved for last as that is the most likely to withstand appeal up the supremes.

arent these basically related and share the same evidence?

I don’t know, but Turley (GW Law) has a decent explanation of why this might end up with the DC Circuit judge rushing a trial (trump magically just happens to get the judge who is sending a bunch of the J6 rioters to jail) and the appellate/supremes tossing it as unconstitutional. IIRC in the Georgia case the evidence so far known much more clearly indicates an illegal conspiracy and fraud vs a sociopath seeking out lawyers who tell him what he wants to hear even if it’s obviously untrue and his long term confidants are telling him it’s untrue

Fairly certain the Georgia stuff is in the indictment

If this is truly all there is, and perhaps it’s just that more will presented at trial, then maybe Georgia isn’t as clear cut because none of this is beyond doubt if Trump truly believed he could still win through a fair and legal process and that there truly was significant fraud despite what local and federal officials said

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/08 ... ctment-dg/

Why does it matter if it’s proven that Trump “truly believed” he won or could still win? If I do or don’t truly believe someone murdered a member of my family and I kill that person, then I still committed the crime. All that should have to be proven is whether or not he did what he is accused of.

Turley suggests sections 6 and 7 would be void if he truly believed it:

The Conspiracy
6. From on or about November 14, 2020, through on or about January 20, 2021, in the
District of Columbia and elsewhere, the Defendant,
DONALD J. TRUMP,
did knowingly combine, conspire, confederate, and agree with co-conspirators, known and
unknown to the Grand Jury, to defraud the United States by using dishonesty, fraud, and deceit to impair, obstruct, and defeat the lawful federal government function by which the results of the presidential election are collected, counted, and certified by the federal government.

Purpose of the Conspiracy
7. The purpose of the conspiracy was to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020
presidential election by using knowingly false claims of election fraud to obstruct the federal government function by which those results are collected, counted, and certified.

I don't think this includes Georgia yet either

Here Are the 78 Charges Trump Now Faces, and All the Prison Time

Charge No. of Counts Maximum Sentence
Corruptly obstructing an official proceeding (DOJ 2020 election case) 1 20 years
Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding (election case) 1 20 years
Conspiracy to threaten or oppress someone exercising a constitutional right (election case) 1 10 years
Conspiracy to defraud the United States (election case) 1 5 years
Retention of national defense information (DOJ classified documents case) 32 10 years for each count
Conspiracy to obstruct justice (documents case) 1 20 years
Withholding records from an official proceeding (documents case) 1 20 years
Concealing records from an official proceeding (documents case) 1 20 years
Concealing documents from federal investigators (documents case) 1 20 years
Scheme to conceal (documents case) 1 5 years
Lying to the US government (documents case) 1 5 years
Altering, destroying or hiding something sought by the government (documents case) 1 20 years
Corruptly altering, destroying or hiding something sought by the government (documents case) 1 20 years
Falsifying business records (Manhattan DA hush-money case) 34 4 years for each count

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... n-time-too

i would love to say he is going to prison but the realists in me knows there are two systems of justice. factor in it will only take one person to lie their way into the jury and find him not guilty and well....