Red Mosquito

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 3:39 pm**

onawave wrote:what gets me is that so called people in power think that america is going to turn into a police state or a socialist country with gun reform and or healthcare reform. you guys have had so many mass shootings that i cant believe people are still talking about this.

Well, let's think this one through first, k? The US government is not only spying on it's citizens, it's spying on pretty much everyone abroad (Germany's Chancellor, the Pope, etc.). They were doing this with hesitation from phone/email providers. To think the government (who also recently targeted the Tea Party via IRS, changed Benghazi talking points, etc.) couldn't have somewhat negative motives or at least have the potential to use situations to their advantage (against their political adversaries) is 100% naive at this point.

John Stewart kinda says it well here: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... andal.html

And don't even try to argue that this healthcare policy hasn't been perhaps the largest governmental fuck up of all time. It's a complete clusterfuck. And in it's short life, it is clear evidence, beyond the DMV, that the government is just an inefficient method to produce goods or services.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:05 pm**

IlluminEddie wrote: And don't even try to argue that this healthcare policy hasn't been perhaps the largest governmental fuck up of all time. It's a complete clusterfuck. And in it's short life, it is clear evidence, beyond the DMV, that the government is just an inefficient method to produce goods or services.

there have been some huge problems, but there is no way to launch a program this huge without having problems at first, especially with half the government actively conspiring against it, which is unprecedented.

And Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have been pretty massively successful government programs. Our public school system is excellent in districts that are properly funded. And so on...

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:07 pm**

IlluminEddie writes a P.S. "And don't even think.." about Obamacare.

CLICKBAIT.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:10 pm**

shit, I have a lot of work I haven't started.

Musn't get involved

Musn't get involved

Musn't get involved

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:33 pm**

stip wrote:
IlluminEddie wrote: And don't even try to argue that this healthcare policy hasn't been perhaps the largest governmental fuck up of all time. It's a complete clusterfuck. And in it's short life, it is clear evidence, beyond the DMV, that the government is just an inefficient method to produce goods or services.
there have been some huge problems, but there is no way to launch a program this huge without having problems at first, especially with half the government actively conspiring against it, which is unprecedented.

Lol. Seriously? There were 6 people who registered on the first day. 6. Fucking. People. There was "no way to launch this program without that?"

That was Bush's fault, right? I'm so tired of the pom-pom waving nonsense from partisans like yourself. Regardless of your "D" sweater and Obama poster, this plan and it's implementation has been a giant, unprecedented fuck up. Bush was a horrible, horrible president. Obama is probably even worse.

stip wrote:And Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have been pretty massively successful government programs. Our public school system is excellent in districts that are properly funded. And so on...

I won't argue counterfactuals. We have no clue if they were successful or not because we don't know what life would have been like without them. We do know that each of the programs you listed are running out of funds though. Our government is pretty much broke. On net, I think government is an inefficient behemoth. No amount of pom-pom waving, new layered programs, or money printing will solve that problem. Politicians, on both sides, are more vested in rewarding their party's special interests (who got them there via funding) than actually providing the best solutions for their citizenry (who got them there via voting). That doesn't say they don't try to throw people a bone, but when uninformed people are promised stuff, they typically don't think through the long run consequences. They take the bailouts, Obamaphones, and healthcare and then bitch about it all afterwards,... probably thinking that the fat guy from NJ who hugged Obama is so different because he's promising "hope and change". It's puke-worthy.

Back to the original point though - NSA, IRS scandal and even the giant fuck up that Obamacare (including the "you can keep your healthplan/doctor" rubbish) has come show that our government shouldn't just be blindly "trusted". And just to keep it fair, let's not forget to mention Bush and his pre-election thoughts on Nation Building. He really lived up to that bs.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:35 pm**

So, Pearl Jam.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:48 pm**

I won't argue counterfactuals. We have no clue if they were successful or not because we don't know what life would have been like without them.

sorry, but this is just silly. of course we know what life would be like without medicare and medicaid. the country lived without these programs for generations. and people died younger, old people lived in poverty and poor people did both. and yes, I understand there were additional factors that have increased the well being of people in general, but don't for a minute assume those two governmental institutions haven't provided a huge portion of the benefit. I'll be happy to put you in touch with my dad who grew up during the depression and he can tell you all about what life was like without those programs.

was the instituting of these programs just some whim the administration had to exercise their control over the population? no, it was a response to the general well being of the country and the people who were too poor to take better care of themselves. That's improving the circumstances of the weakest of us in this society in order to benefit the entire society. how does that not make sense to even you, friend?

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:53 pm**

bart wrote:So, Pearl Jam

are hiding spy chips inside their silly collectibles in order to control American citizens.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 4:54 pm**

IlluminEddie wrote:Our government is pretty much broke.

You're allowing quite a bit of leeway in your "pretty much", right?

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 5:04 pm**

harmless wrote:
IlluminEddie wrote:Our government is pretty much broke.
You're allowing quite a bit of leeway in your "pretty much", right?

other than the Obamaphones, I'd assume.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 5:11 pm**

IlluminEddie wrote:
there have been some huge problems, but there is no way to launch a program this huge without having problems at first, especially with half the government actively conspiring against it, which is unprecedented.
Lol. Seriously? There were 6 people who registered on the first day. 6. Fucking. People. There was "no way to launch this program without that?"

That was Bush's fault, right? I'm so tired of the pom-pom waving nonsense from partisans like yourself. Regardless of your "D" sweater and Obama poster, this plan and it's implementation has been a giant, unprecedented fuck up.

Who mentioned Bush? Do you even read posts before you respond or do you have a series of cut and paste responses you are ready to plug in?

I am not a Democrat. There are no Obama posters in my house or stickers in my car. He did not receive any donations from me in the last campaign. I cast a vote against Romney, not a vote for Obama. This 'oh you're just a partisan' bullshit response of yours is just a safeguard to protect you from having to actually have a conversation or think instead of just cycling in talking points.

I said there have been huge problems with the program. My point was that there are going to be large problems launching something this huge. We tend to forget this and assume that everything will be perfect right off the bat. There are problems, and hopefully they get addressed. The launch of SS was a mess. Until the administrative capacity catches up to the ambition it is a problem.

And yes, to have a political party actively working to prevent the implementation of established legislation is largely unprecedented within the modern United States--at least outside of race issues.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 5:46 pm**

stip wrote:shit, I have a lot of work I haven't started.

Musn't get involved

Musn't get involved

Musn't get involved

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 5:53 pm**

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 7:44 pm**

malice wrote:
I won't argue counterfactuals. We have no clue if they were successful or not because we don't know what life would have been like without them.
sorry, but this is just silly. of course we know what life would be like without medicare and medicaid.

[/quote]
No, we actually don't.

malice wrote:the country lived without these programs for generations. and people died younger, old people lived in poverty and poor people did both.

To provide a response, people also died earlier prior to the advent of the industrial revolution. Economics was called the dismal science because it was thought that growing an economy would lead to population expansion and since they considered the food supply as static, everyone would starve to death. Something wasn't accounted for there (technology) because they seemingly were very wrong. Living standards, population, the economy, and health increased in tandem. It's the economy, stupid.

malice wrote: and yes, I understand there were additional factors that have increased the well being of people in general,

This is the one line that made sense.

malice wrote: but don't for a minute assume those two governmental institutions haven't provided a huge portion of the benefit.

I am not "assuming" anything. I'm stating a fact. It's a counterfactual statement to say that medicare/medicaid and even social security have been "successful". Look up the definition of counterfactual, if you want to argue.

Then, afterwards, stop making assumptions of your own.

malice wrote: I'll be happy to put you in touch with my dad who grew up during the depression and he can tell you all about what life was like without those programs.

No, please do... not... put me in touch with your dad! lol.

It was a fucking depression. Maybe that's why life was tough without "those programs"? How do you or he or anyone know what life would be like now without something we've had for a ridiculously long time?

malice wrote: was the instituting of these programs just some whim the administration had to exercise their control over the population? no, it was a response to the general well being of the country and the people who were too poor to take better care of themselves.

Why are they too poor to take care of themselves? Perhaps, focusing in on that, would help the situation rather than years of national arguments on a subject matter, that when implemented, got 6. Fucking. People. To. Sign. Up. For. It. On. The. First... Day. 6 People!

malice wrote: That's improving the circumstances of the weakest of us in this society in order to benefit the entire society. how does that not make sense to even you, friend?

Because you have no idea if it's improving circumstances overall, or for the weakest. You are assuming. Your making assumptions about everything. The only thing I'm assuming is that you're doing all of the above while waving your Obama sticker in the air. It's kinda nauseating.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 7:45 pm**

harmless wrote:
IlluminEddie wrote:Our government is pretty much broke.
You're allowing quite a bit of leeway in your "pretty much", right?

What's the US debt/GPP ratio? Seriously, look it up...

I think that having more debt than you make in a given year, is kinda the definition of broke. Do you disagree?

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 7:51 pm**

stip wrote:
IlluminEddie wrote:
stip wrote: there have been some huge problems, but there is no way to launch a program this huge without having problems at first, especially with half the government actively conspiring against it, which is unprecedented.
Lol. Seriously? There were 6 people who registered on the first day. 6. Fucking. People. There was "no way to launch this program without that?"

I said there have been huge problems with the program. My point was that there are going to be large problems launching something this huge. We tend to forget this and assume that everything will be perfect right off the bat. There are problems, and hopefully they get addressed. The launch of SS was a mess. Until the administrative capacity catches up to the ambition it is a problem.

No, I don't think the private market would have these sort of problems. You can keep pretending like this is normal and fine though. Obama does no wrong and all, carry on.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 8:04 pm**

IlluminEddie wrote:
harmless wrote:
IlluminEddie wrote:Our government is pretty much broke.
You're allowing quite a bit of leeway in your "pretty much", right?

What's the US debt/GPP ratio? Seriously, look it up...

I think that having more debt than you make in a given year, is kinda the definition of broke. Do you disagree?

I don't really care enough.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 8:05 pm**

illumineddie wrote:It's the economy, stupid.

see, now you've just gone and hurt my feelings.

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 8:06 pm**

Since Illumineddie lives in his own world, rarely makes any sense, and rational conversation with him is impossible, I am tendering my conversational resignation at this point.

All hail President Obama!

Posted: **Mon November 11, 2013 8:06 pm**

stip wrote:Since Illumineddie lives in his own world, rarely makes any sense, and rational conversation with him is impossible, I am tendering my conversational resignation at this point.

All hail President Obama!

*waves stickers*

Red Mosquito

Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards interview

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

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Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter

Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter