Red Mosquito

Use Your Illusion

After durden's and digster's comments, I listened to this this morning, wondering if maybe I'd overblown the "power ballad" aspect of it in my mind. The very first thing that occurred to me was, "Wow, Cameron's drums in the intro are the spitting image of Matt Sorum's fills at the beginning of 'November Rain.'"

I think it bears observing that the three things "Sirens" has been compared to in this thread -- power ballads, Nashville pop, and '80's Pink Floyd -- really aren't that different from each other. Carrie Underwood and Jason Aldean and the like are basically Music Row's bid for the market share owned some thirty years ago by Bryan Adams, Bret Michaels, and a one J.B. Jovi whose lover's love was like bad medicine. Different dress code, same schlock.

Is November Rain a power ballad?

Because if so, then I guess I get what you were saying earlier?

The Nashville thing really comes from Ed's voice and the vocal melody, I think. The Pink Floyd stuff really comes from guitars.

But, yeah, okay, fine, so all of those genres are close cousins. What were we talking about?

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Is November Rain a power ballad?

It's the power ballad to end all power ballads.

Huh.

Funny, I've never considered it to be a power ballad at all. *shrugs*

I guess, why is November Rain a power ballad but Alive isn't? Or Given to Fly isn't? What about Black? Is that a power ballad?

EJ wrote:I'm not sure there's a song I'm more conflicted with in their catalog than Sirens. I'm still not sure where I stand on it.

On the one hand, I hate that they made a song like this - and almost wish they just sold the rights to it to another band. It does make me feel old listening to it.

Then, I listen to the video version of this song and my attitude makes a 180 degree turn. The bombast of the studio version is gone, the interplay of the guitars is really nice, Mike's solo is miles better, and Ed doesn't feel like he's rammed front and center like in the studio version.

This is more or less where I'm at. Whaddya know, still agreeing with EJ.

I would add that I don't like hearing it live in concert. It seems to grind everything to a halt and it's asking too much of Ed's voice to go for the gold on this one every time.

durdencommatyler wrote:I guess, why is November Rain a power ballad but Alive isn't? Or Given to Fly isn't? What about Black?

Mostly production. A little bit arrangement.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I guess, why is November Rain a power ballad but Alive isn't? Or Given to Fly isn't? What about Black?

Mostly production. A little bit arrangement.

And the accompanying music video, apparently.

durdencommatyler wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I guess, why is November Rain a power ballad but Alive isn't? Or Given to Fly isn't? What about Black?

Mostly production. A little bit arrangement.

And the accompanying music video, apparently.

No, correlation does not imply causation.

Is there really a discussion going on here as to whether or not "November Rain" is a power ballad?

Lament wrote:Is there really a discussion going on here as to whether or not "November Rain" is a power ballad?

No, the discussion is on why aren't certain Pearl Jam songs considered power ballads as well.

The reason those PJ songs aren't considered power ballads is because this is a PJ message board

LoathedVermin72 wrote:The reason those PJ songs aren't considered power ballads is because this is a PJ message board

I fucking hate how much I love you.

I would have no objection to "Black" being classified as a power ballad. It's a bit on the dreary side of what usually gets lumped under that umbrella, but it works for me. I don't think "Alive" or "GTF" qualify as ballads at all, so putting them into a sub-class of ballads would automatically be out.

There's no hard and fast definition for what constitutes a "power ballad," it's just a colloquialism that became commonplace after a bunch of '80's metal bands got famous off of slow, sentimental love songs set to thundering, macho arrangements. I think "Sirens" has a lot in common with songs typically lumped under this nonscientific but still generally-understood-to-within-a-reasonable-margin-of-error category.

"I don't like that you're comparing a song I like to x" often ends up getting communicated by becoming absurdly semantic and redefining x into insanity, on music message boards.