Red Mosquito

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:I used to be a mod. What you guys call seconds we called alts -- and making alts was a bannable offense.

its one of those rules here that technically exist (don't make them) but are only enforced when they are a problem

I was only half joking when I said, long ago, that I thought there were really only about 10 people posting on RM.

What if we are all one single person, who's has multiple split personalities; but doesn't know it.

I am Jack's RMing experience.

Thejambi wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

It is not a matter of being taken more or less seriously as it is creating a more layered and encompassing experience. All those things add elements that feel more natural. These nuances are the driving factors of what pulls me into the song and make me want to stay there. I get quite fatigued with songs that are up front and center and leave me no room to sit within the song. I think it can be overdone in the other direction just as well.

Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho!

Thejambi wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

It is not a matter of being taken more or less seriously as it is creating a more layered and encompassing experience. All those things add elements that feel more natural. These nuances are the driving factors of what pulls me into the song and make me want to stay there. I get quite fatigued with songs that are up front and center and leave me no room to sit within the song. I think it can be overdone in the other direction just as well.

I see your point, but sometimes I think an artist doesn't WANT you to "sit" with the music. Sometimes they want you to move with it, if that makes any sense. Some music is meant to envelope you in and make you absorb it, some music is meant to throttle you, I think there's a difference. I don't think one is worse than the other, they just have different intentions behind it.

Tuolumne wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

It is not a matter of being taken more or less seriously as it is creating a more layered and encompassing experience. All those things add elements that feel more natural. These nuances are the driving factors of what pulls me into the song and make me want to stay there. I get quite fatigued with songs that are up front and center and leave me no room to sit within the song. I think it can be overdone in the other direction just as well.

I see your point, but sometimes I think an artist doesn't WANT you to "sit" with the music. Sometimes they want you to move with it, if that makes any sense. Some music is meant to envelope you in and make you absorb it, some music is meant to throttle you, I think there's a difference. I don't think one is worse than the other, they just have different intentions behind it.

Of course. Some fans are just expressing a preference for the other. That's why some fans are experiencing this disconnect. Because it seems the band is interested in taking their music in a different direction and that's frustrating to those who like it when Pearl Jam makes music to sit with because they've done it before and they're good at it.

I for one, can go either way. Backspacer and Binaural my two least favorite PJ albums. Both great for different reasons, but still.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

It is not a matter of being taken more or less seriously as it is creating a more layered and encompassing experience. All those things add elements that feel more natural. These nuances are the driving factors of what pulls me into the song and make me want to stay there. I get quite fatigued with songs that are up front and center and leave me no room to sit within the song. I think it can be overdone in the other direction just as well.

I see your point, but sometimes I think an artist doesn't WANT you to "sit" with the music. Sometimes they want you to move with it, if that makes any sense. Some music is meant to envelope you in and make you absorb it, some music is meant to throttle you, I think there's a difference. I don't think one is worse than the other, they just have different intentions behind it.

Of course. Some fans are just expressing a preference for the other. That's why some fans are experiencing this disconnect. Because it seems the band is interested in taking their music in a different direction and that's frustrating to those who like it when Pearl Jam makes music to sit with because they've done it before and they're good at it.

I for one, can go either way. Backspacer and Binaural my two least favorite PJ albums. Both great for different reasons, but still.

I can totally accept this. This I'm totally cool with it. Sometimes it's just not your bag at that specific moment. It's when people say "they've lost it!" or "it's over!" or "they've screwed it up" (alright, not everyone actually says these exact things, but you know what I'm talking about) or some other histrionic bed wetting that just seems so unfair and narrow-minded.

stupidmop wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

Could it not just be that alot of people simply like that kind of music more? And find it more interesting?

A lot of people? I thought RM was one person posting under multiple personalities? I fell asleep listening to SOH last night and it's a great track to play as you nod off. The tone of the song is fantastic. It has space and atmosphere for days. And reverb! Yay! But lets be honest. It's fucking boring. Of the Girl too. And Parting Ways. And NAIS. Sometimes boring works like when you put your cans on and smoke a bowl. It works when you want to get lost inside an album. I was not a big fan of Binaural when it came out because PJ seemed to be replacing rage and experimentation with dour. The album seemed out of time. (Is an album that should have been released in 1975 that comes out in 2000 out of time or timeless?). I still can't stand the album version of NAIS which should have tied the room together and doesn't. Last night I swapped in Sad for Evacuation and it made me appreciate those sessions a little more. Binaural has been the least accessible album for me which doesn't mean least good although probably I go back to Binaural as infrequently as the dreaded ST and Backspacer. I have to quibble with the notion that there is something more valuable about SOH or Of the Girl than I'm Gonna See My Friends and The End. Pearl Jam was after immediacy on Backspacer and atmosphere on Binaural. I agree about the production though. This latter-day compression makes the ears rebel. But there's too much mob rule mentality when it comes to analyzing PJ's work.

Tuolumne wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

It is not a matter of being taken more or less seriously as it is creating a more layered and encompassing experience. All those things add elements that feel more natural. These nuances are the driving factors of what pulls me into the song and make me want to stay there. I get quite fatigued with songs that are up front and center and leave me no room to sit within the song. I think it can be overdone in the other direction just as well.

I see your point, but sometimes I think an artist doesn't WANT you to "sit" with the music. Sometimes they want you to move with it, if that makes any sense. Some music is meant to envelope you in and make you absorb it, some music is meant to throttle you, I think there's a difference. I don't think one is worse than the other, they just have different intentions behind it.

Of course. Some fans are just expressing a preference for the other. That's why some fans are experiencing this disconnect. Because it seems the band is interested in taking their music in a different direction and that's frustrating to those who like it when Pearl Jam makes music to sit with because they've done it before and they're good at it.

I for one, can go either way. Backspacer and Binaural my two least favorite PJ albums. Both great for different reasons, but still.

I can totally accept this. This I'm totally cool with it. Sometimes it's just not your bag at that specific moment. It's when people say "they've lost it!" or "it's over!" or "they've sold out" (alright, not everyone actually says these exact things, but you know what I'm talking about) or some other histrionic bed wetting that just seems so unfair and narrow-minded.

I tend to agree. But keep in mind (and I didn't realize this until very recently) that most (not all, but most) is tongue-in-cheek. Still, it's a tired joke., and not a particularly funny one. But there you have it.

MemoFromTurner wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

Could it not just be that alot of people simply like that kind of music more? And find it more interesting?

A lot of people? I thought RM was one person posting under multiple personalities? I fell asleep listening to SOH last night and it's a great track to play as you nod off. The tone of the song is fantastic. It has space and atmosphere for days. And reverb! Yay! But lets be honest. It's fucking boring. Of the Girl too. And Parting Ways. And NAIS. Sometimes boring works like when you put your cans on and smoke a bowl. It works when you want to get lost inside an album. I was not a big fan of Binaural when it came out because PJ seemed to be replacing rage and experimentation with dour. The album seemed out of time. (Is an album that should have been released in 1975 that comes out in 2000 out of time or timeless?). I still can't stand the album version of NAIS which should have tied the room together and doesn't. Last night I swapped in Sad for Evacuation and it made me appreciate those sessions a little more. Binaural has been the least accessible album for me which doesn't mean least good although probably I go back to Binaural as infrequently as the dreaded ST and Backspacer. I have to quibble with the notion that there is something more valuable about SOH or Of the Girl than I'm Gonna See My Friends and The End. Pearl Jam was after immediacy on Backspacer and atmosphere on Binaural. I agree about the production though. This latter-day compression makes the ears rebel. But there's too much mob rule mentality when it comes to analyzing PJ's work.

Yep.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

harmless wrote:If Sirens is the soundcheck song, it has a chance of being really good. It will not be so spacey and full of reverb, obviously, so that's the only worry. At the moment, in my head at least, it's the best song on the album and can be compared with SOH.

Just an honest question, does spacey reverb = good to you? If so, why?

Nope. But 'spacey / reverb' was just shorthand for atmospherics. Most people I've read have wanted something akin to SOH, i.e. with lots of spacey effects. I don't care whether I get that or not but I admit it would be nice. When I say 'worry' I mean that it could just be another FON, which would mean it sucks.

I get that the sound of a band in the room is a cool thing and may have been missed last couple of records, but I wonder that people have something ingrained in their heads that something "atmospheric" or spacey or something implies that it's somehow being taken more seriously. After seeing the Cold Confession thread, I sometimes wonder if people are conditioned to think when they hear any of the following it is a more serious piece of work: 1) versus or bridges that are extended 2) reverb on the guitars, 3) echoes on the drums and 4) "space" around the vocals 5) drawn out vocal melody.

It is not a matter of being taken more or less seriously as it is creating a more layered and encompassing experience. All those things add elements that feel more natural. These nuances are the driving factors of what pulls me into the song and make me want to stay there. I get quite fatigued with songs that are up front and center and leave me no room to sit within the song. I think it can be overdone in the other direction just as well.

I see your point, but sometimes I think an artist doesn't WANT you to "sit" with the music. Sometimes they want you to move with it, if that makes any sense. Some music is meant to envelope you in and make you absorb it, some music is meant to throttle you, I think there's a difference. I don't think one is worse than the other, they just have different intentions behind it.

Of course. Some fans are just expressing a preference for the other. That's why some fans are experiencing this disconnect. Because it seems the band is interested in taking their music in a different direction and that's frustrating to those who like it when Pearl Jam makes music to sit with because they've done it before and they're good at it.

I for one, can go either way. Backspacer and Binaural my two least favorite PJ albums. Both great for different reasons, but still.

It doesn't have to be one or the other though. I think Corduroy is a perfect example. It mostly fast paced, loud and moving but the intro/verses/outro give all those little spots to "rest". Do the Evolution is similar. The vocals and riff are pretty hard edged through the verses but the melody of the choruses keep you moving while opening a bigger space to enter the song. Pearl Jam has seem to have forgotten that they used to achieve urgency and intensity through dynamics and texturing and not just through loudness and pace. They also achieved emotion and intrigue with there ballads using those same properties.

Thejambi wrote: Pearl Jam has seem to have forgotten that they used to achieve urgency and intensity through dynamics and texturing and not just through loudness and pace. They also achieved emotion and intrigue with there ballads using those same properties.

Well put. I don't know if they've forgotten or just moved on. But I agree. There doesn't need to be a divide; it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Sorry whats SOH?

Lounge Lizard wrote:Sorry whats SOH?

Sleight of Hand

durdencommatyler wrote:

Thejambi wrote: Pearl Jam has seem to have forgotten that they used to achieve urgency and intensity through dynamics and texturing and not just through loudness and pace. They also achieved emotion and intrigue with there ballads using those same properties.

Well put. I don't know if they've forgotten or just moved on. But I agree. There doesn't need to be a divide; it doesn't have to be one or the other.

The biggest problem i have with Backspacer and all the tracks since then is they lack of overall dynamic/mood within the songs. They have all been pretty linear trips from start to finish (with the occasional slight buildup). Sometimes it works for me (Cold Confession but the lyrics and story play into that style of songwriting).

MemoFromTurner wrote: I fell asleep listening to SOH last night and it's a great track to play as you nod off. The tone of the song is fantastic. It has space and atmosphere for days. And reverb! Yay! But lets be honest. It's fucking boring.

I hate people's need to preface their opinion with "let's be honest", as if they're about to dish the cold hard truth upon a horde of slack-jawed peasants. No, I don't find "Sleight of Hand" to be boring, and if I'm "honest" all I'm prepared to admit is that it's a song that moves me and excites me like nothing on Backspacer does, listless melancholy notwithstanding. "Let's be honest" about what our opinions are and drop the rhetorical misdirection.

Thejambi wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Thejambi wrote: Pearl Jam has seem to have forgotten that they used to achieve urgency and intensity through dynamics and texturing and not just through loudness and pace. They also achieved emotion and intrigue with there ballads using those same properties.

Well put. I don't know if they've forgotten or just moved on. But I agree. There doesn't need to be a divide; it doesn't have to be one or the other.

The biggest problem i have with Backspacer and all the tracks since then is they lack of overall dynamic/mood within the songs. They have all been pretty linear trips from start to finish (with the occasional slight buildup). Sometimes it works for me (Cold Confession but the lyrics and story play into that style of songwriting).

Mind Your Manners works for me. Whatever they're doing.

theplatypus wrote:

MemoFromTurner wrote: I fell asleep listening to SOH last night and it's a great track to play as you nod off. The tone of the song is fantastic. It has space and atmosphere for days. And reverb! Yay! But lets be honest. It's fucking boring.

I hate people's need to preface their opinion with "let's be honest", as if they're about to dish the cold hard truth upon a horde of slack-jawed peasants. No, I don't find "Sleight of Hand" to be boring, and if I'm "honest" all I'm prepared to admit is that it's a song that moves me and excites me like nothing on Backspacer does, listless melancholy notwithstanding. "Let's be honest" about what our opinions are and drop the rhetorical misdirection.

I feel the exact same when people say "think about it" during a discussion.

honestly, i fuckin love SOH. i just dont want an album full of these kinda songs. id love to hear it live though, i dont think i ever have.

theplatypus wrote:

MemoFromTurner wrote: I fell asleep listening to SOH last night and it's a great track to play as you nod off. The tone of the song is fantastic. It has space and atmosphere for days. And reverb! Yay! But lets be honest. It's fucking boring.

I hate people's need to preface their opinion with "let's be honest", as if they're about to dish the cold hard truth upon a horde of slack-jawed peasants. No, I don't find "Sleight of Hand" to be boring, and if I'm "honest" all I'm prepared to admit is that it's a song that moves me and excites me like nothing on Backspacer does, listless melancholy notwithstanding. "Let's be honest" about what our opinions are and drop the rhetorical misdirection.

I love songs that make me feel like a hopeless piece of shit afterwards. SOH is anything but boring.

Sleight of Hand is in my top 10. I adore that song.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:Sorry whats SOH?

Sleight of Hand

Thanks. Never liked it.