Red Mosquito

DDWJMUVW wrote:Stone's guitar at 218-225 is what it SHOULD sound like.

Agree that on the album it sounds stripped of all its glow, continuance and fuzz and is just kind of notes.

DDWJMUVW wrote: There is both up and down compression on that track.

What do you mean by this?

tragabigzanda wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote: There is both up and down compression on that track.

What do you mean by this?

quieter parts turned up, louder parts turned down.

too much of it leads to a track that's lost all its dynamics and just sounds flat. to me the album version of grievance sounds like that.

Also, the phrasing of the verse riff on the album seems so robotic. the delivery has a definite groove on the letterman version. Really, if some of the wotman rumblings are accurate, he emphasized a more raw approach and tracking takes that had a more "live" feel. that strategy with some vitalogy-like mixing and mastering would be really, really welcome in my book.

DDWJMUVW wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote: There is both up and down compression on that track.

What do you mean by this?

quieter parts turned up, louder parts turned down.

So... compression

has anyone confirmed whether Boom has eaten recently

Jorge wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote: There is both up and down compression on that track.

What do you mean by this?

quieter parts turned up, louder parts turned down.

So... compression

I don’t believe the song is any more or less compressed than the other rock songs on Binaural, and the public Dynamic Range Database supports this.

I also don’t find the guitars to be particularly edgy, but that’s more a matter of taste.

The one consistent criticism I’d give to the BOB mixed songs on Binaural is that there’s generally a lack of depth and width. The stereo spread is fairly crowded, and most tracks of the guitars are right at the front of your speaker, rather than set back a bit to create some depth.

tragabigzanda wrote:I don’t believe the song is any more or less compressed than the other rock songs on Binaural, and the public Dynamic Range Database supports this.

I also don’t find the guitars to be particularly edgy, but that’s more a matter of taste.

The one consistent criticism I’d give to the BOB mixed songs on Binaural is that there’s generally a lack of depth and width. The stereo spread is fairly crowded, and most tracks of the guitars are right at the front of your speaker, rather than set back a bit to create some depth.

"The “Unofficial” Dynamic Range Database uses a sliding scale from 1 to 20 (1 being the worst, 20 being the best) to rank the dynamic quality of each of the recordings they list. This number represents the difference between the peak decibel level on a recording and the recording’s average loudness. DRD applies the following descriptors to these ranges: 1-7=bad; 8-13=transition; and 14-20=good. Evaluation for each album on the website includes the album’s average dynamic range, the track with the weakest dynamic range, and the track with the greatest. The Unofficial DRD also provides individual dynamic range measurements for each track on the album."

Binaural scores an avg of 7. TO be fair, it appears the scale doesn't go beyond 14, which makes the explanation above a bit confusing. Nonetheless:

Grievance has the weakest range on the album (scores a 6) except for Insignificance (another great song that suffers bc of this production). Frankly, even if you don't understand dynamic range and compression, you can just hear it. The impression is flat, blunt, and really hurts some of the tracks. I know they have much more potential, but I can't hear it.

Analyzed folder: /Volumes/DATA/music/Pearl Jam/Binaural
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR7 -0.10 dB -7.91 dB 01 - Breakerfall.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -6.65 dB 02 - Gods' Dice.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -8.43 dB 03 - Evacuation.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -7.45 dB 04 - Light Years.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -8.96 dB 05 - Nothing as It Seems.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -9.24 dB 06 - Thin Air.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -7.18 dB 07 - Insignificance.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -9.41 dB 08 - Of the Girl.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -7.38 dB 09 - Grievance.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -9.00 dB 10 - Rival.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -8.52 dB 11 - Sleight of Hand.m4a
DR12 -1.26 dB -16.51 dB 12 - Soon Forget.m4a
DR7 -0.05 dB -10.75 dB 13 - Parting Ways _ Writers Block.m4a
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes it has 6db of dynamic range, and we are in agreement that this isn’t a lot (I’m generally happy with around 10db). But it’s the same range as several other songs on the album, so it doesn’t particularly stand out to me.

Grievance is awesome in the album you idiots.

Strat wrote:Grievance is awesome in the album you idiots.

Pledge your grievance to the idiots.

emanon wrote:

liebzz wrote:There’s at least two Mike McCreadys in there.

And that's not even the record - I heard he's been eight!

nice

1.2

dprival78 wrote:gigiwatt

..s

For the record: I am on the "the production on Binaural is awful" bandwagon

File all grievances to songcomplaints@tenclub.com

Hypnosomnia wrote:Guys, wtf, the production of Binaural is exactly what make the album so great. Is not "rocky". Is moody, mysterious, atmospheric, layered, exotic, nocturnal, ear candy. Is the kind of record made exclusively for headphones. Binaural is a vibe.

The only 'vibe' you need to worry about is the one in your wife's knickers drawer.

DDWJMUVW wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote: There is both up and down compression on that track.

What do you mean by this?

quieter parts turned up, louder parts turned down.

too much of it leads to a track that's lost all its dynamics and just sounds flat. to me the album version of grievance sounds like that.

Also, the phrasing of the verse riff on the album seems so robotic. the delivery has a definite groove on the letterman version. Really, if some of the wotman rumblings are accurate, he emphasized a more raw approach and tracking takes that had a more "live" feel. that strategy with some vitalogy-like mixing and mastering would be really, really welcome in my book.

I woke up and read the last page of this thread.

Based on this comment, I deduced:

- the first single had been released
- they had performed it on Letterman somehow
- people were already bitching about the production

Imagine my disappointment to find out we're talking about 24 year old song

The mastering of mainstream rock band in 2000 would contribute to the compression and not just the production/mix.

The low end gets compressed so the guitars lose some of that intended growling tone that is left in the 00 bootlegs

The final master on binaural isn’t perfect but it’s a great sounding album that’s always fun to test on different systems.. now it’s all up to wotman.

lecherouslittlestump wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

DDWJMUVW wrote: There is both up and down compression on that track.

What do you mean by this?

quieter parts turned up, louder parts turned down.

too much of it leads to a track that's lost all its dynamics and just sounds flat. to me the album version of grievance sounds like that.

Also, the phrasing of the verse riff on the album seems so robotic. the delivery has a definite groove on the letterman version. Really, if some of the wotman rumblings are accurate, he emphasized a more raw approach and tracking takes that had a more "live" feel. that strategy with some vitalogy-like mixing and mastering would be really, really welcome in my book.

I woke up and read the last page of this thread.

Based on this comment, I deduced:

- the first single had been released
- they had performed it on Letterman somehow
- people were already bitching about the production

Imagine my disappointment to find out we're talking about 24 year old song

I feel like Letterman could have been the giveaway…..

DDWJMUVW wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I don’t believe the song is any more or less compressed than the other rock songs on Binaural, and the public Dynamic Range Database supports this.

I also don’t find the guitars to be particularly edgy, but that’s more a matter of taste.

The one consistent criticism I’d give to the BOB mixed songs on Binaural is that there’s generally a lack of depth and width. The stereo spread is fairly crowded, and most tracks of the guitars are right at the front of your speaker, rather than set back a bit to create some depth.

"The “Unofficial” Dynamic Range Database uses a sliding scale from 1 to 20 (1 being the worst, 20 being the best) to rank the dynamic quality of each of the recordings they list. This number represents the difference between the peak decibel level on a recording and the recording’s average loudness. DRD applies the following descriptors to these ranges: 1-7=bad; 8-13=transition; and 14-20=good. Evaluation for each album on the website includes the album’s average dynamic range, the track with the weakest dynamic range, and the track with the greatest. The Unofficial DRD also provides individual dynamic range measurements for each track on the album."

Binaural scores an avg of 7. TO be fair, it appears the scale doesn't go beyond 14, which makes the explanation above a bit confusing. Nonetheless:

Grievance has the weakest range on the album (scores a 6) except for Insignificance (another great song that suffers bc of this production). Frankly, even if you don't understand dynamic range and compression, you can just hear it. The impression is flat, blunt, and really hurts some of the tracks. I know they have much more potential, but I can't hear it.

Analyzed folder: /Volumes/DATA/music/Pearl Jam/Binaural
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR7 -0.10 dB -7.91 dB 01 - Breakerfall.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -6.65 dB 02 - Gods' Dice.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -8.43 dB 03 - Evacuation.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -7.45 dB 04 - Light Years.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -8.96 dB 05 - Nothing as It Seems.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -9.24 dB 06 - Thin Air.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -7.18 dB 07 - Insignificance.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -9.41 dB 08 - Of the Girl.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -7.38 dB 09 - Grievance.m4a
DR7 -0.10 dB -9.00 dB 10 - Rival.m4a
DR6 -0.10 dB -8.52 dB 11 - Sleight of Hand.m4a
DR12 -1.26 dB -16.51 dB 12 - Soon Forget.m4a
DR7 -0.05 dB -10.75 dB 13 - Parting Ways _ Writers Block.m4a
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is so hawt