Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:there's something very tactile about star wars that they are completing missing (the Prequels). Both new films get that exactly right.

Yes. Exactly.

I like that Lucas tried to do something totally different in the Prequels, but this is exactly what's missing. There was a way to do both: to make it new and different and still tactile.

I thought Ewan was actually really good in it. He's so great. I'd be fine witht he prequels looking as they do if the acting/writing was stronger.

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:there's something very tactile about star wars that they are completing missing (the Prequels). Both new films get that exactly right.

Yes. Exactly.

I like that Lucas tried to do something totally different in the Prequels, but this is exactly what's missing. There was a way to do both: to make it new and different and still tactile.

I thought Ewan was actually really good in it. He's so great. I'd be fine witht he prequels looking as they do if the acting/writing was stronger.

To a degree, yes. I agree with you. Lucas should not have directed those films. He left his actors high and dry (for the most part). But I think even with better writing and great performances, I think Stip's criticism still holds.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:there's something very tactile about star wars that they are completing missing (the Prequels). Both new films get that exactly right.

Yes. Exactly.

I like that Lucas tried to do something totally different in the Prequels, but this is exactly what's missing. There was a way to do both: to make it new and different and still tactile.

I thought Ewan was actually really good in it. He's so great. I'd be fine witht he prequels looking as they do if the acting/writing was stronger.

To a degree, yes. I agree with you. Lucas should not have directed those films. He left his actors high and dry (for the most part). But I think even with better writing and great performances, I think Stip's criticism still holds.

Oh, it does hold, no question. But i wouldnt hate the films as i do.

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:there's something very tactile about star wars that they are completing missing (the Prequels). Both new films get that exactly right.

Yes. Exactly.

I like that Lucas tried to do something totally different in the Prequels, but this is exactly what's missing. There was a way to do both: to make it new and different and still tactile.

I thought Ewan was actually really good in it. He's so great. I'd be fine witht he prequels looking as they do if the acting/writing was stronger.

To a degree, yes. I agree with you. Lucas should not have directed those films. He left his actors high and dry (for the most part). But I think even with better writing and great performances, I think Stip's criticism still holds.

Oh, it does hold, no question. But i wouldnt hate the films as i do.

Absolutely. There are so many good ideas in those films. The execution just leaves one wanting. Honestly, even midichlorians isn't an inherently terrible idea. Just the execution was so bad.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:there's something very tactile about star wars that they are completing missing (the Prequels). Both new films get that exactly right.

Yes. Exactly.

I like that Lucas tried to do something totally different in the Prequels, but this is exactly what's missing. There was a way to do both: to make it new and different and still tactile.

I thought Ewan was actually really good in it. He's so great. I'd be fine witht he prequels looking as they do if the acting/writing was stronger.

To a degree, yes. I agree with you. Lucas should not have directed those films. He left his actors high and dry (for the most part). But I think even with better writing and great performances, I think Stip's criticism still holds.

Oh, it does hold, no question. But i wouldnt hate the films as i do.

Absolutely. There are so many good ideas in those films. The execution just leaves one wanting. Honestly, even midichlorians isn't an inherently terrible idea. Just the execution was so bad.

I never forget seeing Phantom in the movies, when they mentioned the whole midichlorians thing, he lost his mind.

We had our employee holiday party last night and the bartenders chipped in to get gifts for all of us. I ended up with a copy of that Star Wars Saga collection. Now I have no excuse not to go back and watch these prequels.

I'm assuming a few of you have this collection. How are the documentaries on it? Is Han back to shooting first on this release?

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Comple ... B015AJOKFG

durdencommatyler wrote:

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:there's something very tactile about star wars that they are completing missing (the Prequels). Both new films get that exactly right.

Yes. Exactly.

I like that Lucas tried to do something totally different in the Prequels, but this is exactly what's missing. There was a way to do both: to make it new and different and still tactile.

I thought Ewan was actually really good in it. He's so great. I'd be fine witht he prequels looking as they do if the acting/writing was stronger.

To a degree, yes. I agree with you. Lucas should not have directed those films. He left his actors high and dry (for the most part). But I think even with better writing and great performances, I think Stip's criticism still holds.

Oh, it does hold, no question. But i wouldnt hate the films as i do.

Absolutely. There are so many good ideas in those films. The execution just leaves one wanting. Honestly, even midichlorians isn't an inherently terrible idea. Just the execution was so bad.

The bolded part is a talking point I've heard used before, but I totally disagree with. I think the that both the ideas and execution were bad.

The ideas pointed out in the OT I thought we're pretty good, but the ideas that ended up being used in the PT I just don't like. I posted a laundry list one time in some star wars thread somewhere. Here is an abbreviated list of things I think were bad ideas in the PT:
The overall "feel" (I think I go into that on the R1 thread)
Jar Jar
Order 66
Yoda in lighsaber duels
Kid Anakin
The Chosen One prophecy stuff
Owen not being Anakin's blood brother or at least cousin or something
The love story
The pod race
Not showing more of Alderaan (would have added more weight in ANH)

Execution I didn't like:

The political theater (I think this could have been very interesting if done right)
The Sith (there really should be some backstory here. The OT doesn't even mention the word sith)
Anakin / Padme's relationship (we all knew it was happening and boy, was it executed poorly - "I don't like sand")
Anakin's decent to the dark side

the amazing story and star wars podcast made an excellent point. Since we know what happens to Anakin in the end the right way to do this was to have Anakain be a larger than life mythic figure, where he was too good, too perfect, and in the end he crumbles under the weight of his own ideals (think Lancelot, etc). Anakin's fall as presented gets you from point a to point b with reasonable motivations, and makes sense within the context of the story, but there's no tension since you know where it's ending up and the final transformation feels like the end of an evolution, rather than a tragic break.

stip wrote:the amazing story and star wars podcast made an excellent point. Since we know what happens to Anakin in the end the right way to do this was to have Anakain be a larger than life mythic figure, where he was too good, too perfect, and in the end he crumbles under the weight of his own ideals (think Lancelot, etc). Anakin's fall as presented gets you from point a to point b with reasonable motivations, and makes sense within the context of the story, but there's no tension since you know where it's ending up and the final transformation feels like the end of an evolution, rather than a tragic break.

I'm gonna listen to that series of podcasts again and watch the films before each episode.

That guy made me see things in Star Wars a whole new way. He's wonderful.

Alright. I'm going to try and power through these prequels. Twenty minutes in and the Jar Jar factor is already worse than I anticipated. I thought I'd at least be able to understand the words out of his mouth.

stip wrote:the amazing story and star wars podcast made an excellent point. Since we know what happens to Anakin in the end the right way to do this was to have Anakain be a larger than life mythic figure, where he was too good, too perfect, and in the end he crumbles under the weight of his own ideals (think Lancelot, etc). Anakin's fall as presented gets you from point a to point b with reasonable motivations, and makes sense within the context of the story, but there's no tension since you know where it's ending up and the final transformation feels like the end of an evolution, rather than a tragic break.

Exactly. I think anyone who thinks there are not good ideas within the PT should really listen to The Story and Star Wars podcast. That breaks it all down much more eloquently and thoughtfully than I can articulate.

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:the amazing story and star wars podcast made an excellent point. Since we know what happens to Anakin in the end the right way to do this was to have Anakain be a larger than life mythic figure, where he was too good, too perfect, and in the end he crumbles under the weight of his own ideals (think Lancelot, etc). Anakin's fall as presented gets you from point a to point b with reasonable motivations, and makes sense within the context of the story, but there's no tension since you know where it's ending up and the final transformation feels like the end of an evolution, rather than a tragic break.

Exactly. I think anyone who thinks there are not good ideas within the PT should really listen to The Story and Star Wars podcast. That breaks it all down much more eloquently and thoughtfully than I can articulate.

and - apparently - George lucas

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

stip wrote:the amazing story and star wars podcast made an excellent point. Since we know what happens to Anakin in the end the right way to do this was to have Anakain be a larger than life mythic figure, where he was too good, too perfect, and in the end he crumbles under the weight of his own ideals (think Lancelot, etc). Anakin's fall as presented gets you from point a to point b with reasonable motivations, and makes sense within the context of the story, but there's no tension since you know where it's ending up and the final transformation feels like the end of an evolution, rather than a tragic break.

Exactly. I think anyone who thinks there are not good ideas within the PT should really listen to The Story and Star Wars podcast. That breaks it all down much more eloquently and thoughtfully than I can articulate.

and - apparently - George lucas

AL

Prequels needed more Yoda in lightsaber battles.

darth_vedder wrote:The overall "feel" (I think I go into that on the R1 thread)
Jar Jar
Order 66
Yoda in lighsaber duels
The pod race

these are all some of the best things in the PT

The podrace sequence is over ten minutes long. With no music.

Odd that it works at that length.

dimejinky99 wrote:The podrace sequence is over ten minutes long. With no music.

Odd that it works at that length.

it doesn't.

In a vacuum, the podracing scene is fantastic. I just don't think it works in the film. Or rather, it's completely disposable in the context of the film. It adds nothing and the movie could have been the exact same or better without it. It's overly indulgent and actually takes away more than it adds. But in and of itself it's a cool sequence.

I just didnt need to fucking see Darth Vader as a 9 year old. Fuck.

durdencommatyler wrote:In a vacuum, the podracing scene is fantastic. I just don't think it works in the film. Or rather, it's completely disposable in the context of the film. It adds nothing and the movie could have been the exact same or better without it. It's overly indulgent and actually takes away more than it adds. But in and of itself it's a cool sequence.

I don't think so at all. It's Anakin proving himself. His whole future is on the line. There's a lot at stake.