Red Mosquito

cutuphalfdead wrote:

numbers wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:Honestly, my biggest complaint about Manny is his intentional derailment during the 2008 season. If Manny plays hard in 08 for the Red Sox they win the World Series back to back.

I felt like they could have just worked through it for the good of the team that year, but understood that it was time.

Not if he wasn't going to play for us. He was intentionally not trying. We got more production out of Jason Bay than Manny was going to give us down the stretch in 08. It's infuriating because the 08 team could have been the best of the era.

I think Manny would have been back to normal after a few days, wasnt the first time he pulled that.

numbers wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

numbers wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:Honestly, my biggest complaint about Manny is his intentional derailment during the 2008 season. If Manny plays hard in 08 for the Red Sox they win the World Series back to back.

I felt like they could have just worked through it for the good of the team that year, but understood that it was time.

Not if he wasn't going to play for us. He was intentionally not trying. We got more production out of Jason Bay than Manny was going to give us down the stretch in 08. It's infuriating because the 08 team could have been the best of the era.

I think Manny would have been back to normal after a few days, wasnt the first time he pulled that.

I don't know it was getting really bad.

Maybe you're right. Fuck. Every time I think about the 08 sox I get depressed.

Has Eli Manning been discussed here?

He's a no for me.

It makes me cringe when I say it, but I really don't see how Eli doesn't get in. 2x Super Bowl MVP, top 10 in TDs, passing yards (when he retires)...he may not be first ballot, but he'll be in eventually.

Bammer wrote:Has Eli Manning been discussed here?

He's a no for me.

A lot of people will say yes for his two rings, but his stats are pretty pedestrian for the era he's playing in

MattA75 wrote:

Bammer wrote:Has Eli Manning been discussed here?

He's a no for me.

A lot of people will say yes for his two rings, but his stats are pretty pedestrian for the era he's playing in

Are they, though? I guess it depends if you're looking at cumulative stats (passing yards, TDs) or per stats. In basically every cum stat (yards, attempts, completions, TDs, and so on) there are only a few active QBs ahead of him, and it's almost always Brees, Brady, and Peyton--and in each one of those categories, he's in or hanging around the top 10 all time.

But in the per stats, he's not as impressive. All-time, he's 36th in passer rating, 64th in pass yards per attempt, 107th in pass yards per completion, 40th in adj yards per attempt, 49th in completion percentage, and so on.

He's also only made the playoffs in 4 seasons, and he was one-and-done in two of those.

I think he's more Drew Bledsoe than like the top-flight QBs of his era, but those two signature games (maybe even just two signature throws) might be enough to get him in.

Are there any qbs that have 2 rings that aren't in?

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Are there any qbs that have 2 rings that aren't in?

Jim Plunkett

Simple Torture wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:Are there any qbs that have 2 rings that aren't in?

Jim Plunkett

Ah that's right

Simple Torture wrote:

MattA75 wrote:

Bammer wrote:Has Eli Manning been discussed here?

He's a no for me.

A lot of people will say yes for his two rings, but his stats are pretty pedestrian for the era he's playing in

Are they, though? I guess it depends if you're looking at cumulative stats (passing yards, TDs) or per stats. In basically every cum stat (yards, attempts, completions, TDs, and so on) there are only a few active QBs ahead of him, and it's almost always Brees, Brady, and Peyton--and in each one of those categories, he's in or hanging around the top 10 all time.

But in the per stats, he's not as impressive. All-time, he's 36th in passer rating, 64th in pass yards per attempt, 107th in pass yards per completion, 40th in adj yards per attempt, 49th in completion percentage, and so on.

He's also only made the playoffs in 4 seasons, and he was one-and-done in two of those.

I think he's more Drew Bledsoe than like the top-flight QBs of his era, but those two signature games (maybe even just two signature throws) might be enough to get him in.

His QB to INT ratio sucks, he's only 11 games over .500, he's actually made the playoffs in 5 seasons, but no worries, because the one you missed was one and done too (and he was AWFUL in all of those games). I mean hell, I'd vote for Warner 100X over before I gave one vote to Eli...I watch him and I sure as hell don't think "wow, there's one of the greatest QBs of all time"

For some reason I was looking at his playoff rushing stats, and that only included 4 years. He actually has more division titles than I thought (I was reading the stats wrong). Compared to his contemporaries (not including this season):

Name - Playoff Appearances (Division Titles) - Record

Peyton Manning - 14 (11) - 11-13
Tom Brady - 12 (12) - 21-8
Ben Roethlisberger - 8 (5) - 11-5
Aaron Rodgers - 8 (5) - 7-5
Drew Brees - 6 (4) - 6-5
Philip Rivers - 5 (4) - 4-5
Eli Manning - 5 (3) - 8-3

Heh. "Cum stat"

@SkitchP wrote:Heh. "Cum stat"

Simple Torture wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:Heh. "Cum stat"

Great post

@SkitchP wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:Heh. "Cum stat"

Great post

Which begs the question: Matt Stafford?

Spoiler: show

Look at his numbers

I like Eli as a potential HOFer, but he's going to have to wait behind a ton of QBs first. Peyton/Brady are the two obvious ones, then Rodgers and Roethlisberger, and then Brees. I think Eli would be next after that.

Bammer wrote:Which begs the question: Matt Stafford?

Spoiler: show

Look at his numbers

as of now? Absolutely no way. In fact, they flashed a stat around mid season that he was 75th all time in passing yards. I was like WOW. I was all ready to use it as ammo as a Pro-Stafford guy. Then I looked at the list. #14 was Kerry Collins. Vinny Testaverde is top 10. and that list lost all meaning to me. He's up to 64 at the end of the season.



Having said that.. he's 27 years old. By the time he's finished his age 30 season, its entirely reasonable he could be top 20. So with his numbers all it might take for him to be a serious candidate is a single Super Bowl win and couple decent playoff seasons.

Took a peek at some of Stafford's numbers to try and make some sort of case either way, and the best thing I could find: under "similar players" for his career so far, Pro-Football Reference likens him to Jake Delhomme, Aaron Brooks, Chad Pennington...and Scott Mitchell.