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Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 5:44 am
by harmless
And to actually answer, my previous thoughts have been clarified and deepened. There's more to work with now, but that's why the family values bookends are there. To say that the message of the song is still the message here.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 5:46 am
by LetMeSleep
harmless wrote:And to actually answer, my previous thoughts have been clarified and deepened. There's more to work with now, but that's why the family values bookends are there. To say that the message of the song is still the message here.
Thankyou sir.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 5:53 am
by harmless
LetMeSleep, I dont buy that argument. it's one of the fallacies offered up whenever someone doesn't like something. Truth is, response is subjective. If you dont like a piece of art, you won't begin to see anything in it. It doesn't mean it wouldn't be there to find if you did like it. My thoughts are purely based on bringing my experience to what I'm seeing.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 5:58 am
by Blenheim Augustine
Kevin Davis wrote:What is the point of music videos is 2013?
Check out some of the play counts on current music videos. I think you'll find there's plenty of point in producing for this medium. I'm sure a certain South Korean musician would think you were a bit out of touch.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 6:04 am
by harmless
Blenheim Augustine wrote:Kevin Davis wrote:What is the point of music videos is 2013?
Check out some of the play counts on current music videos. I think you'll find there's plenty of point in producing for this medium. I'm sure a certain South Korean musician would think you were a bit out of touch.
Yup. In the age of viral marketing and memes, maybe all that's changed is that it helps if imagery is a bit more palatable and instantaneous.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 6:16 am
by LetMeSleep
harmless wrote:LetMeSleep, I dont buy that argument. it's one of the fallacies offered up whenever someone doesn't like something. Truth is, response is subjective. If you dont like a piece of art, you won't begin to see anything in it. It doesn't mean it wouldn't be there to find if you did like it. My thoughts are purely based on bringing my experience to what I'm seeing.
Yeah I see what you mean, I am just using it as a way to settle that we don't see eye to eye.The holes I saw in the lyrics and their presentation with the music, have not lessened with the added imagery. In fact, the holes seem bigger. I feel Ed is swinging (not-so) wildly at indistinct targets.
For you, the target is clear and I am prepared to settle at that.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 6:25 am
by harmless
LetMeSleep wrote:harmless wrote:LetMeSleep, I dont buy that argument. it's one of the fallacies offered up whenever someone doesn't like something. Truth is, response is subjective. If you dont like a piece of art, you won't begin to see anything in it. It doesn't mean it wouldn't be there to find if you did like it. My thoughts are purely based on bringing my experience to what I'm seeing.
Yeah I see what you mean, I am just using it as a way to settle that we don't see eye to eye.The holes I saw in the lyrics and their presentation with the music, have not lessened with the added imagery. In fact, the holes seem bigger. I feel Ed is swinging (not-so) wildly at indistinct targets.
For you, the target is clear and I am prepared to settle at that.
OK yep. It might be to do with how clear you want your targets to be. In Bushleaguer he railed against one president, but mostly he rails against values which are large and unfathomable in a neat package. Just wondering: how clear did you find the target of, say, DTE?
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 6:41 am
by knee tunes
world wide
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 6:41 am
by knee tunes
suicide
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 6:54 am
by LetMeSleep
harmless wrote:LetMeSleep wrote:harmless wrote:LetMeSleep, I dont buy that argument. it's one of the fallacies offered up whenever someone doesn't like something. Truth is, response is subjective. If you dont like a piece of art, you won't begin to see anything in it. It doesn't mean it wouldn't be there to find if you did like it. My thoughts are purely based on bringing my experience to what I'm seeing.
Yeah I see what you mean, I am just using it as a way to settle that we don't see eye to eye.The holes I saw in the lyrics and their presentation with the music, have not lessened with the added imagery. In fact, the holes seem bigger. I feel Ed is swinging (not-so) wildly at indistinct targets.
For you, the target is clear and I am prepared to settle at that.
OK yep. It might be to do with how clear you want your targets to be. In Bushleaguer he railed against one president, but mostly he rails against values which are large and unfathomable in a neat package. Just wondering: how clear did you find the target of, say, DTE?
DTE was pretty clear. But there I found the delivery and the music to be hand in hand with lyrics. MYM not so much.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 7:04 am
by knee tunes
I love the bridge in this song.
I love bridges.
and this has a good one
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 7:07 am
by harmless
This is the first PJ song for ages that I've liked as a whole and didn't feel the need to pick apart.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 7:09 am
by knee tunes
If I were in the band, I wouldn't be able to wait to play this one
it seems like it would be a blast to play
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 7:13 am
by knee tunes
Lament wrote:verb_to_trust wrote:I never even said the video was that bad, I just don't think there is really anything to analyze.
I don't know man. When they flash to Stone and he mouths along to "LIVING HELL!" do you think he's trying to communicate to us that at this point being in Pearl Jam is a living hell for him?
yes except he is in a coma and he's only dreaming that he's in a rock video
see, there's a difference.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 7:16 am
by Angus
I haven't listened to this one in a few weeks, now I watched the clip and I really like this. Good news.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 7:26 am
by mkay0
knee tunes wrote:I love the bridge in this song.
I love bridges.
and this has a good one
yes, the bridge on this song is outstanding
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 8:19 am
by stupidmop
People keep talking about the video going with eds lyrics /statements or whatever. The animator(?) Said in that interview that he worked with Jeff mostly. I'm sure ed had a part on it and signed off on it but Its possible not every image correlates with eds meaning behind the lyrics.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 9:22 am
by Sgt. Crackpot
knee tunes wrote:I love the bridge in this song.
I love bridges.
and this has a good one
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 10:26 am
by stip
LetMeSleep wrote:Dear Mr Stip and Mr Harmless,
After reading many a posting regarding the meaning of MYM the song and now a few regarding the meaning of MYM the video, can you please answer if your original thoughts of the song's meaning have altered or been confirmed?
For me, the original message has only further been diluted, has become murkier after seeing the video. There seems to be a lot of shadow boxing at indirect targets. And is Pearl Jam now a multimedia outfit where a video is needed to expound what a lyric cannot completely convey? Since when were videos necessary to carry a message? And does this indicate that the lyrics were not effective enough? Or maybe, once again, I am missing the point.
Of course, you cannot conclusively answer the above. Only the writer of the lyric and the concept designer of the video can truly answer that.
Sound regards,
LMS
Oddly, I am growing to not hate this track and I'm feeling that I will be able to stomach it within an album context.
Edit: I haven't read the entire thread response nor the LB thread response since the video hit. Apologies if this has been covered.
I'd say it clarified certain things. Actually it confirmed some suspicions I had. Given the album artwork (and the single artwork, to be honest) it made sense to think of MYM as a polemic against religious fundamentalism. But the bridge, which had little to do with organized religion and more about questions of individual power and self-worth (I wish there was a word that summarized all that up I could just use. alas) I started thinking that the song was about something a bit beyond that, and that the religious stuff was symptomatic of a larger concern--a combination of passivity and acceptance in the face of an impending real world apocalypse. One where no one gets saved. Even the mind your manners stuff (which I am increasingly thinking is a pretty excellent lyric) is less about 50s style conservativism and more about the social prohibition about questioning the status quo that elites try so hard to foster. That was a little stretch in the music--implied, but not at the fore. It seems a lot clearer in the video.
Re: Mind Your Manners
Posted: Sat August 24, 2013 11:27 am
by dkfan9
Sgt. Crackpot wrote:knee tunes wrote:I love the bridge in this song.
I love bridges.
and this has a good one
