Red Mosquito

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

tragabigzanda wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:it's demonstrably false that "their fans will follow them anywhere", given that most of their fans didn't follow them beyond Vitalogy

The ones who stuck with them are generally still around, yeah?

For a certain level of fan, I think you’re right — but many of their fans who stuck with them through their philosophical shifts in the ‘90’s were still quite young, and I think in that regard they have experienced a level of gradual dropoff the way all bands do as their fans grow older and just less excited by music in general. It is possible these folks would still buy tickets to a concert for any number of reasons, but I am not sure I would call this type of fan one who would “follow them anywhere,” necessarily — just maybe one who is happy to keep meeting them when it is convenient.

I also think that while No Code was a demarcation point for a lot of fans, it wasn’t always a hard line in the sand; many folks held out hope that it was a one-off, and some were moderately encouraged when Yield came out and seemed to at least turn the needle back a little bit, even if the next two completely burst their bubbles. Big picture, I remember every PJ album up through Riot Act being disappointing to people in some way, and I think every record in that run probably saw the band lose a fresh wave of fans for whom the latest album of wimpy ballads and weird experiments was one simply too many. It’s possible this extended even further as well, but I feel like my read on it becomes less reliable at that point; by S/T it felt like they were very much in legacy band mode, trying to specifically play to those groups of people who were only ever going to be there to meet them where it was convenient (which to be fair is not an unreasonable approach — that type of fan is many bands’ whole audience).

That said, I wonder how much power the lead single of a new album has at this point to affect any of that. Historically, demand for their shows has always exceeded supply, even as they have moved to larger venues, so it seems unlikely that a new single will drive a meaningful increase in ticket sales. It also seems unlikely that a well-received lead single will lead to a record-buying surge, though perhaps at this point numbers that seemed immaterial in the ‘90’s are worth chasing. Basically I wonder if everything they think they are gaining from “promotion” at this point is already etched in stone to a degree — and if so, whether they’re aware of this, or whether they are just stuck in an old-world model of hand-wringing over which song is most radio-friendly, will move the most units, etc., an approach that seems relatively superfluous at best for a band of PJ’s stature at this late juncture in their career.

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

Or just… his opinion? That was a little condescending, eh

Kevin Davis wrote:It also seems unlikely that a well-received lead single will lead to a record-buying surge, though perhaps at this point numbers that seemed immaterial in the ‘90’s are worth chasing.

I think due to the pandemic, Gigaton hardly sold anything, so the band might want to at least see what they can do releasing a record in a healthier market.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

Or just… his opinion? That was a little condescending, eh

I don’t claim to be perfect

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

Or just… his opinion? That was a little condescending, eh

the problem is that he, personally, has hardly (if ever) used that gracious qualifier "just my opinion" -- that's your defense of his posts, which are actually nearly all full of the accusation that people who don't share his opinions are cognitively lacking and deaf

Ms Harmless wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

Or just… his opinion? That was a little condescending, eh

the problem is that he, personally, has hardly (if ever) used that gracious qualifier "just my opinion" -- that's your defense of his posts, which are actually nearly all full of the accusation that people who don't share his opinions are cognitively lacking and deaf

“Don’t forget- Dark Matter sucks, grumble grumble”

RockPusher wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:It also seems unlikely that a well-received lead single will lead to a record-buying surge, though perhaps at this point numbers that seemed immaterial in the ‘90’s are worth chasing.

I think due to the pandemic, Gigaton hardly sold anything, so the band might want to at least see what they can do releasing a record in a healthier market.

Is it true that Gigaton hardly sold anything, and is that a number directly traceable to the pandemic? And is it a healthier market for record sales now? Genuine questions all — I don’t pay much attention to the numbers.

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:that's ridiculous, because that statement was entirely my personal taste (as are all of yours)

You have to go easy on trag. He doesn’t understand what an opinion is. He’s spent 45,000 posts defending “alternative facts.”

Or just… his opinion? That was a little condescending, eh

the problem is that he, personally, has hardly (if ever) used that gracious qualifier "just my opinion" -- that's your defense of his posts, which are actually nearly all full of the accusation that people who don't share his opinions are cognitively lacking and deaf

“Don’t forget- Dark Matter sucks, grumble grumble”

Dark Matter gets better every day I spend with it; it's the little intricacies, which is what Pearl Jam were always about to me

Why would someone need to state that a post is "just their opinion"? Isn't that inferred with all posts?

Kevin Davis wrote:
That said, I wonder how much power the lead single of a new album has at this point to affect any of that. Historically, demand for their shows has always exceeded supply, even as they have moved to larger venues, so it seems unlikely that a new single will drive a meaningful increase in ticket sales. It also seems unlikely that a well-received lead single will lead to a record-buying surge, though perhaps at this point numbers that seemed immaterial in the ‘90’s are worth chasing. Basically I wonder if everything they think they are gaining from “promotion” at this point is already etched in stone to a degree — and if so, whether they’re aware of this, or whether they are just stuck in an old-world model of hand-wringing over which song is most radio-friendly, will move the most units, etc., an approach that seems relatively superfluous at best for a band of PJ’s stature at this late juncture in their career.

This feels spot on. Their space, particularly in terms of being a live draw, has been unchanged pretty much since the late 90s. With slight ebbs and flows regionally, they can comfortably pack an arena in any metro area in the country. They've maintained that when putting out comparatively difficult albums, when they've put out their Return to Rock albums, and when they've put out albums aiming for a more pop accessibility. The arenas are going to fill up regardless.

Monkey_Driven wrote:Why would someone need to state that a post is "just their opinion"? Isn't that inferred with all posts?

No. Only if you don’t like this song. But using definitive words like “ever” after a post about something else doesn’t need the “imo”, it should be obvious

Kevin Davis wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:it's demonstrably false that "their fans will follow them anywhere", given that most of their fans didn't follow them beyond Vitalogy

The ones who stuck with them are generally still around, yeah?

For a certain level of fan, I think you’re right — but many of their fans who stuck with them through their philosophical shifts in the ‘90’s were still quite young, and I think in that regard they have experienced a level of gradual dropoff the way all bands do as their fans grow older and just less excited by music in general. It is possible these folks would still buy tickets to a concert for any number of reasons, but I am not sure I would call this type of fan one who would “follow them anywhere,” necessarily — just maybe one who is happy to keep meeting them when it is convenient.

I also think that while No Code was a demarcation point for a lot of fans, it wasn’t always a hard line in the sand; many folks held out hope that it was a one-off, and some were moderately encouraged when Yield came out and seemed to at least turn the needle back a little bit, even if the next two completely burst their bubbles. Big picture, I remember every PJ album up through Riot Act being disappointing to people in some way, and I think every record in that run probably saw the band lose a fresh wave of fans for whom the latest album of wimpy ballads and weird experiments was one simply too many. It’s possible this extended even further as well, but I feel like my read on it becomes less reliable at that point; by S/T it felt like they were very much in legacy band mode, trying to specifically play to those groups of people who were only ever going to be there to meet them where it was convenient (which to be fair is not an unreasonable approach — that type of fan is many bands’ whole audience).

That said, I wonder how much power the lead single of a new album has at this point to affect any of that. Historically, demand for their shows has always exceeded supply, even as they have moved to larger venues, so it seems unlikely that a new single will drive a meaningful increase in ticket sales. It also seems unlikely that a well-received lead single will lead to a record-buying surge, though perhaps at this point numbers that seemed immaterial in the ‘90’s are worth chasing. Basically I wonder if everything they think they are gaining from “promotion” at this point is already etched in stone to a degree — and if so, whether they’re aware of this, or whether they are just stuck in an old-world model of hand-wringing over which song is most radio-friendly, will move the most units, etc., an approach that seems relatively superfluous at best for a band of PJ’s stature at this late juncture in their career.

I think the reality a hot single helps them for the folks that don’t really realize they are still around despite enjoying their music. Yes, there is a sizable group of folks that will see them any time any place, and I don’t they need a hot single to conjure up folks to go to their shows (I mean, they sell out baseball stadiums within minutes without flinching), but I think it’s meant as a jolt for folks that maybe have bought their albums but sort of forgot about them since they’ve not had any hit albums in a long time.

There’s also something to be said for the fact that physical media has become something of a niche and a hit single similarly won’t do much for sales. The folks out buying the physical copies of the album are us, and everyone else will give it a listen on Spotify or Apple Music and it stays in their rotation or it doesn’t. A single probably has the most impact on that.

Kevin Davis wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:It also seems unlikely that a well-received lead single will lead to a record-buying surge, though perhaps at this point numbers that seemed immaterial in the ‘90’s are worth chasing.

I think due to the pandemic, Gigaton hardly sold anything, so the band might want to at least see what they can do releasing a record in a healthier market.

Is it true that Gigaton hardly sold anything, and is that a number directly traceable to the pandemic? And is it a healthier market for record sales now? Genuine questions all — I don’t pay much attention to the numbers.

Me either. But according to wiki:

— Backspacer: 189k copies sold in first week in US. Last update was 635k sold by 2013 (4 years after release).

— Lightning Bolt: 166k sold in first week in US. No updates

— Gigaton: 63k sold in first week in US. As of March 2024, it has totaled 172k sales, 4 years later. Of note, it has the second highest number of weekly units sold on vinyl (presuming release week)

Declining album sales, yet equally as difficult to buy a concert ticket.

I'd love to see how those album sales relate to the larger trend of declining physical sales across the entire industry.

has gigaton not gone gold? that would be a first, and these are probably the terms a band iof their era would use to earmark success

Monkey_Driven wrote:I'd love to see how those album sales relate to the larger trend of declining physical sales across the entire industry.

I’m sure the Fixer video got a couple of wooden YouTube play buttons

Monkey_Driven wrote:I'd love to see how those album sales relate to the larger trend of declining physical sales across the entire industry.

I bet it’s definitely part of a pattern, except for maybe outlier artists like Taylor swift