Red Mosquito

As far as drone strikes go, are there not enough explosions in this thing?

harmless wrote:

IlluminEddie wrote:

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:Ed attacking George Bush has set a cruel, cruel precedent (no pun intended). He has to make every album a concept piece attacking every politician that exists until he dies. (Is it just me or does anyone else believe Ed may not believe in public spying, or the plight of Orang Utans in Borneo? Hey, the Pussy Riot being in prison thing is still going, and now they're locking away gay people. Quick Ed, explore it in song before the jamily values are compromised!).

Pretty much this. Just because Ed has been specific in his lyrics before doesn't mean they have to be specific every time, nor does it mean he's not being critical because he's not being specific. The best political songs he ever wrote were written when a Democrat (Clinton) was in office and there were no allusions made to him.

I am in no way asking for him to be specific. For example, naming Obama. He doesn't need to do that at all.

What I am saying is, look at current events. NSA, drones, etc. Ummm... this is directly relevant to the "best political songs he ever wrote were written when a a Democrat (Clinton) was in office". The difference, of course, is he didn't go and publicly fund raise for Clinton.

That... there... is the point.

There are fucking current events in this video, just maybe not your favourite ones. Just as there were other world issues when Ed wrote about rolling models in blood. Hey, don't lose hope though, there is a huge eye and radio antenna on the album art, maybe spying will be covered.

I don't know, bro. I don't see current events. I see events regurgitated from the early 2000s, that PJ rallied against then. This could be a video for any video for any political song they've had from 2000 on, actually.

I will bet heavily they won't touch anything that could look bad on our current President. Because Ed's already stuck his wiener in him. It's a done deal.

If I'm wrong,... and I see that in the album... I'll come back n say so. But, I'd bet heavy money, I know this guy after 10 albums. He always thinks he knows he's right. He's very passionate and very naive.

digster wrote:I'm still not really sure what the point is, beyond stating the obvious point that Ed never, as far as we know, raised money for Clinton. Okay, and?

Yes you do. The point is ... look at the current world, it's not 2003. There's plenty of areas to pick on.

i just watched the video and enjoyed it. apart from those stupid cartoon lightning bolts fuckin up the place.

IlluminEddie wrote:

harmless wrote:

IlluminEddie wrote:

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:Ed attacking George Bush has set a cruel, cruel precedent (no pun intended). He has to make every album a concept piece attacking every politician that exists until he dies. (Is it just me or does anyone else believe Ed may not believe in public spying, or the plight of Orang Utans in Borneo? Hey, the Pussy Riot being in prison thing is still going, and now they're locking away gay people. Quick Ed, explore it in song before the jamily values are compromised!).

Pretty much this. Just because Ed has been specific in his lyrics before doesn't mean they have to be specific every time, nor does it mean he's not being critical because he's not being specific. The best political songs he ever wrote were written when a Democrat (Clinton) was in office and there were no allusions made to him.

I am in no way asking for him to be specific. For example, naming Obama. He doesn't need to do that at all.

What I am saying is, look at current events. NSA, drones, etc. Ummm... this is directly relevant to the "best political songs he ever wrote were written when a a Democrat (Clinton) was in office". The difference, of course, is he didn't go and publicly fund raise for Clinton.

That... there... is the point.

There are fucking current events in this video, just maybe not your favourite ones. Just as there were other world issues when Ed wrote about rolling models in blood. Hey, don't lose hope though, there is a huge eye and radio antenna on the album art, maybe spying will be covered.

I don't know, bro. I don't see current events. I see events regurgitated from the early 2000s, that PJ rallied against then. This could be a video for any video for any political song they've had from 2000 on, actually.

I will bet heavily they won't touch anything that could look bad on our current President. Because Ed's already stuck his wiener in him. It's a done deal.

If I'm wrong,... and I see that in the album... I'll come back n say so. But, I'd bet heavy money, I know this guy after 10 albums. He always thinks he knows he's right. He's very passionate and very naive.

Or maybe you are? Look, I don't give a shit whether you can't see current events here. I've listed ones I can see in these two threads. And neither do I expect you to come back and eat humble pie if you're wrong. I don't care. But by attacking values and war crimes, Ed is not exempting Obama from his critique. To say he is is just crazy cray.

IlluminEddie wrote:

digster wrote:I'm still not really sure what the point is, beyond stating the obvious point that Ed never, as far as we know, raised money for Clinton. Okay, and?

Yes you do. The point is ... look at the current world, it's not 2003. There's plenty of areas to pick on.

He does!

Do you think the wars are over, is that it?

IlluminEddie wrote:

stip wrote:you seem to be angry that eddie has not reprised the totality of two albums critical of an administration, and several large tours worth of public comments, into a two and a half minute song that avoids concrete details while trying to address larger themes about agency against a backdrop of a collapsing world (in the video). At least wait until you get an album and a tour until you level that complaint. Maybe you’re right. But the amount of vitriol you seem to have over this seems a bit premature, no?

Nah, I’m not angry about anything. I’m simply stating to you, Eddie has never once… not once, disagreed with a single thing the current President has done. Ever. He’s had the chance for years. You had a chance to point out I’m wrong about 600 times in our discussion to state 1 thing. 1 thing… he’s said anti-Obama, or ever Obama’s agenda or policy. You didn’t. Because you can’t.

In the song Got Some from Backspacer:

Are you getting out? Are you dropping bombs?
Have you heard of diplomatic resolve?

Obama was the president at the time this song was written. I always took this line as a jab at Obama for failing to pull the troops out as soon as he took office, basically like he promised he would do.

I'm not sure this means much but it's interesting. My mate and the lead singer of my old band likes this song and video and has some hope for the album. He jumped off the boat at Yield.

harmless wrote:I'm not sure this means much but it's interesting. My mate and the lead singer of my old band likes this song and video and has some hope for the album. He jumped off the boat at Yield.

what was not to like about Yield? I undersdtand jumping ship at No Code, but Yield?

just a blanket response to illumineddie. I am on an ipad and haven't really figured out how to quote effectively on this thing.

others have said this, but you seem to have two very specific political axes to grind. One of which Eddie did not touch (QE) which I doubt he A: thinks is a problem and B: probably wouldn't bring up anyway. It's a bit arcane for a rock song outside of something you'd hear on a tea party youtube channel. The NSA stuff is totally legit, but it is quite specific, and I (and seemingly others here) don't think it is appropriate for this song. This is not a song about the bad things that are happening. it is a song about the appropriate RESPONSE to the bad things hat are happening. The bad things are a backdrop for that larger point. Could there have been more contemporary stock footage in the video. Sure. Would that have made it better? Probably. But it's not like that was Bush era footage either.

And even if the current events were more important, any political song that exists today dealing with war, ecological collapse, etc. is going to contain an implicit critique of the current administration because they are the ones in charge. EV only mentioned Bush once in a song, and it was not a particularly graceful song, so I hope he doesn't ever do it again. As you said, he is often naieve about this stuff, or at least oversimplifies, and so the more he stays away from specifics the better. Rock songs are not the best place for serious public policy discussions anyway. At best, they can point out the need for them.

I think you are making very specific condemnations about eddie's alleged cowardice, hypocrisy, etc. because he is not taking on the NSA. And he may not. He may never say anything else political on this record for all we know (or something that can be construed as political about obama, anyway, which I guess is your point). But we've only heard one song and seen one video where it was even a possibility. No tour, no album, no interviews. When would he have done it? (for people who listen to the solo show boots, did he say anything there) At an Obama fundraiser during the general election. That would have been stupid from his perspective since he was trying to raise money to defeat Romney who likely, on every issue obama cares about, would have been far worse. There are times to take the moral stand on principle, and there are times to work to do the maximum amount of good (or minimize harm) in concrete ways. Both have value.

If at the end of a record and this tour he never talks about these things we can revisit this question. You might be right. But what you are describing right now makes as much sense as being mad at eddie for not mentioning Sandy Hook, not criticizing inequality, or anything like that. The specific song doesn't require it (and works better without it) and the video is going for apocalyptic 'end of the world' images that the nsa stuff wouldn't have fallen under. Again, I'm sorry this wasn't the song/video YOU wanted, but these simply aren't reasonable critiques to make of this song. They are possibly reasonable critiques to be made about eddie/pearl jam inc. in several months.

as far as the credential stuff, yes it is obnoxious as hell. It is patronizing. But that was something you brought up first, in reference to your classified secret knowledge that only you had which invalidated my ability to participate in this conversation (the economics part of it, anyway). If we are going to play that game lets just put our cards on the table. For someone so worried about the nsa I figured you'd be into that.

But now that we've finished waving our credential dicks in the air, lets just do this. I'll stop talking about QE, since you outrank me. In return you stop talking about elections and politics. We can share the NSA, since i"m feeling magnanimous. Plus I doubt we disagree.

one final thing

IlluminEddie wrote:
He wrote a song about standing up for something political, in the face of others (like stip) scolding you. Ha ha.

He wrote a song about speaking up. Yet, you (and I’m quite sure he would too) want that to be shut down. It’s hysterical.

you asked a question. I offered a response. You advanced an argument in a public forum. I think it's wrong, and responded explaining why. the fact that people are not agreeing with you does not make you persecuted. you can't martyr yourself when no one is trying to burn you.

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm not sure this means much but it's interesting. My mate and the lead singer of my old band likes this song and video and has some hope for the album. He jumped off the boat at Yield.

what was not to like about Yield? I undersdtand jumping ship at No Code, but Yield?

i know quite a few people who got off at yield. A lot of anthems that, for many were pale retreads of far more effective earlier songs. You wont find that view expressed much here, but then again we're the ones who stuck around

stip wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm not sure this means much but it's interesting. My mate and the lead singer of my old band likes this song and video and has some hope for the album. He jumped off the boat at Yield.

what was not to like about Yield? I undersdtand jumping ship at No Code, but Yield?

i know quite a few people who got off at yield. A lot of anthems that, for many were pale retreads of far more effective earlier songs. You wont find that view expressed much here, but then again we're the ones who stuck around

No I mean he liked Yield but by the time Binaural came around he'd moved on.

I can't wait to hear people either complain that there's nothing on the record that addresses the NSA situation or conversely, try to argue that something on the record IS addressing the NSA situation. The story broke on June 6th. Mind Your Manners dropped a month later. There is virtually no way Ed's work on this record wasn't all but finished when the story broke.

stip wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm not sure this means much but it's interesting. My mate and the lead singer of my old band likes this song and video and has some hope for the album. He jumped off the boat at Yield.

what was not to like about Yield? I undersdtand jumping ship at No Code, but Yield?

i know quite a few people who got off at yield. A lot of anthems that, for many were pale retreads of far more effective earlier songs. You wont find that view expressed much here, but then again we're the ones who stuck around

What Yield songs are anthems besides GTF?

Heathen wrote:What Yield songs are anthems besides GTF?

In Hiding.

Lament wrote:

Heathen wrote:What Yield songs are anthems besides GTF?

In Hiding.

I don't see it. To me there is some kind of restraint on most of Yield that makes it a very non-anthemic album.

Heathen wrote:

Lament wrote:

Heathen wrote:What Yield songs are anthems besides GTF?

In Hiding.

I don't see it. To me there is some kind of restraint on most of Yield that makes it a very non-anthemic album.

Really? I think In Hiding is every bit as anthemic (structurally speaking) as Given to Fly. An instantly recognizable guitar riff to open the song, then a build of tension from the verse to the pre-chorus before the release of a giant, shout along along chorus. And then they do it all over again. Just like in Given to Fly.

Lament wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Lament wrote:

Heathen wrote:What Yield songs are anthems besides GTF?

In Hiding.

I don't see it. To me there is some kind of restraint on most of Yield that makes it a very non-anthemic album.

Really? I think In Hiding is every bit as anthemic (structurally speaking) as Given to Fly. An instantly recognizable guitar riff to open the song, then a build of tension from the verse to the pre-chorus before the release of a giant, shout along along chorus. And then they do it all over again. Just like in Given to Fly.

Structurally speaking maybe, but it doesn't feel like an anthem.

Team Heathen