Page 3 of 10
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 6:13 pm
by Lounge Lizard
There is over produced and then there is unfinished. LIR is unfinished
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 6:15 pm
by stip
Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 6:18 pm
by Soulfire
stip wrote:guys, I'm still not feeling this one. It's fine. But that's it.
Nobody can make you.
I do think this relates to the Schiavo case now that it was brought up and I have listened to it again with that whole scenario in mind. It also is leading me to change a few of my lyric from things like "Except" to "Accept".
For me, as I now listen to this I see a woman's life (if not Schiavo) at the end and it helps the music all click and make sense to me. The mood and pacing of the song also make sense to me in the context of this interpretation. With that said, I still like Cold Confession better.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 6:46 pm
by BurtReynolds
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 6:50 pm
by McParadigm
stip wrote:that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
There is zero doubt in my mind that production influences people's perception of music more than they realize. I don't even bother pointing out whenever somebody says Song A sucks because...., and the comment reflects an influence of the production as much as anything else, because it would be too time consuming.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 6:57 pm
by IlluminEddie
stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do (like music no one's heard of yet or is scarce). If there's a fear it will be released, it's more likely to be dismissed for this that or the other reason. If it's produced, it's more likely to be released and so the story goes.
Also, generally speaking - songs should not involve love-based themes, be slow moving ballads (see previous thought) and should not be produced according to RM guidelines. In general, songs should not have the possibility to be liked by the mass public in order to popular in these parts. Let's be real... neither of these two songs Let it Ride or Cold Confession would ever be considered a top PJ song by the general public.
Truth be told, I get the overall thought process to a small extent,... but I still think Just Breathe and the End are fantastic songs, two of Pearl Jam's best and I don't care if people liked them. Same deal with Small Town. These Ed songs are awesome and came from the same guy who wrote Rearviewmirror. Anyway, I guess I just like when people have heard of a new song by my favorite band, when I hear my favorite band on the radio for more than a week, etc... I know low-production won't cut it if that's going to happen.
I have no fears about someone else liking music I like, provided I really like it.
P.S. My take - Let it Ride is average at best.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 7:00 pm
by Heathen
IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do (like music no one's heard of yet or is scarce). If there's a fear it will be released, it's more likely to be dismissed for this that or the other reason. If it's produced, it's more likely to be released and so the story goes.
Also, generally speaking - songs should not involve love-based themes, be slow moving ballads (see previous thought) and should not be produced according to RM guidelines. In general, songs should not have the possibility to be liked by the mass public in order to popular in these parts. Let's be real... neither of these two songs Let it Ride or Cold Confession would ever be considered a top PJ song by the general public.
That's just bullshit man.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 7:00 pm
by BurtReynolds
IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do (like music no one's heard of yet or is scarce). If there's a fear it will be released, it's more likely to be dismissed for this that or the other reason. If it's produced, it's more likely to be released and so the story goes.
Also, generally speaking - songs should not involve love-based themes, be slow moving ballads (see previous thought) and should not be produced according to RM guidelines. In general, songs should not have the possibility to be liked by the mass public in order to popular in these parts. Let's be real... neither of these two songs Let it Ride or Cold Confession would ever be considered a top PJ song by the general public.
Truth be told, I get the overall thought process to a small extent,... but I still think Just Breathe and the End are fantastic songs, two of Pearl Jam's best and I don't care if people liked them. Same deal with Small Town. These Ed songs are awesome and came from the same guy who wrote Rearviewmirror. Anyway, I guess I just like when people have heard of a new song by my favorite band, when I hear my favorite band on the radio for more than a week, etc... I know low-production won't cut it if that's going to happen.
I have no fears about someone else liking music I like, provided I really like it.
P.S. My take - Let it Ride is average at best.
lol
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 7:06 pm
by ---
IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do (like music no one's heard of yet or is scarce). If there's a fear it will be released, it's more likely to be dismissed for this that or the other reason. If it's produced, it's more likely to be released and so the story goes.
Also, generally speaking - songs should not involve love-based themes, be slow moving ballads (see previous thought) and should not be produced according to RM guidelines. In general, songs should not have the possibility to be liked by the mass public in order to popular in these parts. Let's be real... neither of these two songs Let it Ride or Cold Confession would ever be considered a top PJ song by the general public.
Truth be told, I get the overall thought process to a small extent,... but I still think Just Breathe and the End are fantastic songs, two of Pearl Jam's best and I don't care if people liked them. Same deal with Small Town. These Ed songs are awesome and came from the same guy who wrote Rearviewmirror. Anyway, I guess I just like when people have heard of a new song by my favorite band, when I hear my favorite band on the radio for more than a week, etc... I know low-production won't cut it if that's going to happen.
I have no fears about someone else liking music I like, provided I really like it.
P.S. My take - Let it Ride is average at best.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 7:07 pm
by digster
Heathen wrote:
That's just bullshit man.
Agreed.
Anyways, I cannot get this song out of my head. It completely deflates that poster's argument, because in addition to the song being cool, interesting, and fun to discover, the ending especially is also very catchy and melodic. So there goes that idea that you can only have it one way.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 7:43 pm
by stip
IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do
to clarify, that was definitely not my point. It's not that these songs were rare that matters. They feel rawer or unprocessed/unmastered. So you can hear the actual song in a purer form. And I think that's attractive to a lot of people--especially since the mastering on the last two albums (of which I am one of the most, if not the most, vocal defenders) does leave something to be desired.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:01 pm
by IlluminEddie
stip wrote:IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do
to clarify, that was definitely not my point. It's not that these songs were rare that matters. They feel rawer or unprocessed/unmastered. So you can hear the actual song in a purer form. And I think that's attractive to a lot of people--especially since the mastering on the last two albums (of which I am one of the most, if not the most, vocal defenders) does leave something to be desired.
Ok. Fair enough. You didn't say the songs being rare matters, I did. I did so to clarify my point further, after agreeing with you regarding the songs quality of mix.
You said the part about feeling "rawer or unprocessed/unmastered". I basically am saying that seeking that sort of mix is a very hipster thing to do and then went on to clarify why and also added a alternative aspects that some may seek (rareness, etc).
Anyway, I see nothing wrong with those who float to the hipster side of the spectrum. Just like there's nothing wrong with the polar opposite (see the front page of PORCH at Ten Club for these guys) who "love"
every single thing PJ does and freak out if anyone on the board disagrees.
The people who love every single thing PJ does are quite annoying to talk to. Truth is: PJ is flawed. So, there's probably a happy medium somewhere in between brainwashed PJ fan and hipster PJ fan that is the 'safe zone'.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:03 pm
by EJ
I didn't know you could be a hipster and like Pearl Jam. Seems like an oxymoron to me...
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:07 pm
by Heathen
IlluminEddie wrote:You said the part about feeling "rawer or unprocessed/unmastered". I basically am saying that seeking that sort of mix is a very hipster thing to do and then went on to clarify why and also added a alternative aspects that some may seek (rareness, etc).
WUT? You realize that the unprocessed status of theses songs basically means we can hear the instruments breathe and live, unlike most of what PJ actually released lately. It has nothing to do with obscurity or the feeling to listen to something less "official" (therefore, cooler), it is about the warmth and the depth of the sound and nothing else. I didn't know it was hipsterish to prefer hearing the music sound like music.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:11 pm
by Jorge
IlluminEddie wrote:RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:11 pm
by digster
Yes, raw/unprocessed albums and artists are limited exclusively to hipsters.
Besides Elvis Presley. And Bob Dylan. And Neil Young. And John Lennon. And so on.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:15 pm
by IlluminEddie
EJ wrote:I didn't know you could be a hipster and like Pearl Jam. Seems like an oxymoron to me...
The point was that there's a hipster (adjective) sect in PJ fandom. In order to be included in the sect, you have to prefer certain obscure elements of their catalog and have a bit of a disdain for their music which is generally more accessible to a broader, more general audience.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:16 pm
by Thejambi
I think we just want to hear good music.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:18 pm
by Blenheim Augustine
stip wrote:IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do
to clarify, that was definitely not my point. It's not that these songs were rare that matters. They feel rawer or unprocessed/unmastered. So you can hear the actual song in a purer form. And I think that's attractive to a lot of people--especially since the mastering on the last two albums (of which I am one of the most, if not the most, vocal defenders) does leave something to be desired.
The point is that when Pearl Jam songs are good, no one gives a shit about this stuff. No one is talking about production, vocal delivery or agency because these songs are immediate. They engage the right hand side of the brain so the left hand side can take a rest.
Re: new (old) song: Let it Ride
Posted: Tue July 23, 2013 8:21 pm
by BurtReynolds
stip wrote:IlluminEddie wrote:stip wrote:Heathen wrote:stip wrote:These feel unmastered to me. I really wonder how much of people's issues with later day pearl jam really come down to production--issues with how the songs feel due to their presentation, rather than the writing itself.
I don't really make a distinction. A song is what a song sounds like. Not what the sheet looks like. At least to me. Now I know what you mean of course, so would I like Life Wasted, Unemployable, The Fixer or WWS with a different production? Probably not, unless it was produced in a way that makes the lyrics unhearable.
that's true, and the song is the song. But there were more than a few comments somewhere in this avalanche where people were remarking on how great they tracks felt/sounded (the 5 guys playing in a room) that I think reflects the rawer, unmastered feel of these songs. I can very easily imagine people soured on backspacer's production, for instance, enjoying the unmastered versions of those songs more. Will they become their favorite songs? Of course not. Will it make a difference? it might.
Yup.
In my limited time here over the years, I think RM is known for it's hipster-style remarks. I think that's what you're getting at and I agree. If it's "not released", there's more incentive here to like it because that's the hipster thing to do
to clarify, that was definitely not my point. It's not that these songs were rare that matters. They feel rawer or unprocessed/unmastered. So you can hear the actual song in a purer form. And I think that's attractive to a lot of people--especially since the mastering on the last two albums (of which I am one of the most, if not the most, vocal defenders) does leave something to be desired.
Thats definitely a big part of it, but I think they could get away with a lot of the production glossiness if the underlying songs had more meat on them. They've seemingly had a great desire to trim the fat and simplify many of their new songs. I like the fat. Some people don't like the somewhat meandering, jammy side of the band, but I love it.
