Red Mosquito

elliseamos wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:People assume Nixon was bad because he resigned under impeachment, but what he did would barely make the news these days.

I'm not going that far. He resigned while under impeachment because what he did was bad (then & now). He also negotiated with the Vietnamese undermining Johnson in order to get elected. But some of what he did while in office gets overlooked as good for the country/planet.

Someone was trying to redpill people on Nixon the other day, but I can't remember the argument enough to argue for it. Maybe schoolboy knows.

Wait, didn't he ban gold? Drop him down my list.

From what I read of Norris's post I agree on Biden not being included.

And, yes, each of these people have bad/problematic events while in power that deserve reproach and criticism, but since Jorge says I have to:

Johnson
Obama
Nixon
Carter
Clinton
Ford
Bush, H.W.
Reagan
Trump
Bush, W.

Obama
Bush Sr
Carter
Reagan
Clinton
Biden
Ford
Nixon
W Bush
Trump

The Argonaut wrote:Burt is right

That fair, I'll put Nixon over them both, but by the time I get to the last two ... Who gives a shit?

No real opinion on 1-8.

Trump & Biden come in at 9 & 10 in no particular order.

So far, Barry O. has ranked outside the top 2 only once (Burt).

I know with my own rankings it had more to do with the field than his own warring & pharmaceutical loving 8 years. He did get Bin Laden, he did lead us out of the financial collapse, and he did get the Affordable Care Act also known as Socialist Death Squad Plan passed.

BurtReynolds wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:I feel like only McP, GH, and possibly Ruddo have enough historical knowledge to even post in this thread

Well fuck you, too

I'll post the correct ranking today or tomorrow

Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.

4/5 wrote:Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.

I knocked him for the crime bill and Brian Williams would like to tell you about the Bosnian conflict.

elliseamos wrote:

4/5 wrote:Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.

I knocked him for the crime bill and Brian Williams would like to tell you about the Bosnian conflict.

Major wars. You have two Vietnam War presidents and a War on Terrorism president ranked higher. There were plenty of foreign misadventures during Clinton's presidency but they're not even comparable to those.

You also should knock him for DOMA, though.

4/5 wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

4/5 wrote:Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.

I knocked him for the crime bill and Brian Williams would like to tell you about the Bosnian conflict.

Major wars. You have two Vietnam War presidents and a War on Terrorism president ranked higher. There were plenty of foreign misadventures during Clinton's presidency but they're not even comparable to those.

You also should knock him for DOMA, though.

I wasn't knocking Clinton for Bosnia and/or peace, but you're right, DOMA was shitty. I like him right where he is. Johnson & Nixon have significant policy pluses (in my book) that allow for Vietnam to be on their record (as misguided/mismanaged as it was). I mean Vietnam started even before Kennedy, so everyone gets an F on that one. Ditto Obama & his misguided/mismanaged with his WoT powers/authorization, compared to what he did domestically.

elliseamos wrote:I wasn't knocking Clinton for Bosnia and/or peace, but you're right, DOMA was shitty. I like him right where he is. Johnson & Nixon have significant policy pluses (in my book) that allow for Vietnam to be on their record (as misguided/mismanaged as it was). I mean Vietnam started even before Kennedy, so everyone gets an F on that one. Ditto Obama & his misguided/mismanaged with his WoT powers/authorization, compared to what he did domestically.

That's fine, there aren't any great answers. I probably look at from the standpoint of doing the least harm, so presidents of misguided wars are going to be punished more severely in my book. Nixon also had some disastrous economic policies that people tend to forget about for some reason like price/wage controls, pushing the Fed to be overly expansionary during election years, severing the link to gold, which combined with LBJ's Guns and Butter sent the U.S. into a decade of stagflation. I get that he wins points for the EPA and detente, but the war on drugs, opposition to bussing, the southern strategy, and his general megalomania (even compared to the other 9 megalomaniacs on the list) are all major marks against him.

For all of Clinton's achievements, I often remember him for ruining modern radio and I place a disproportionate amount of weight on that when judging him.

Anders wrote:Saddam had gotten away with genocide, invading another country, and led a terrible dictatorship with continous atrocities. Iraq is now a democracy, with 15 million more citizens than during Saddam’s reign. The whole WMD reasoning was wrong, but getting rid of the world’s worst dictator was right.

Lmfao.

Mickey wrote:

Anders wrote:Saddam had gotten away with genocide, invading another country, and led a terrible dictatorship with continous atrocities. Iraq is now a democracy, with 15 million more citizens than during Saddam’s reign. The whole WMD reasoning was wrong, but getting rid of the world’s worst dictator was right.

Lmfao.

yeah really

I was wondering if everyone was gonna let that slide.

elliseamos wrote:So far, Barry O. has ranked outside the top 2 only once (Burt).

I know with my own rankings it had more to do with the field than his own warring & pharmaceutical loving 8 years. He did get Bin Laden, he did lead us out of the financial collapse, and he did get the Affordable Care Act also known as Socialist Death Squad Plan passed.

What happened next?

Change

BurtReynolds wrote:I was wondering if everyone was gonna let that slide.

It's such an insane post that any rebuke would necessitate being mean to Anders, which is a hard thing to do

Jorge wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:I was wondering if everyone was gonna let that slide.

It's such an insane post that any rebuke would necessitate being mean to Anders, which is a hard thing to do

Yeah I couldn't do it.