Red Mosquito

spike wrote:

Blenheim Augustine wrote:Most of Riot Act:

Stone Gossard wrote:"[A lot of] the [songs'] arrangements were only hours old a lot of the times. We'd teach each other a song in the studio, just figuring we'd demo it up to see if we wanted to do it. But then Ed came in the studio and threw a vocal on it and that was it. There were several songs that we all thought were only demos, but Ed would say, 'I just sang it, that's the take.'"

huh, see that's interesting. i've always considered a demo to be a very rough sketch of a song that's recorded independently by a member of the band, then brought to the band. once the band records it in some form, it ceases to be a demo and is then a rough mix. but i suppose it's still a demo if the band is working it out in studio and it just happens to be recorded? or, stone is just using the term 'demo' haphazardly, which is, really, what a lot of folks around here do and it get's chud's panties in a bunch.

spike wrote:

Blenheim Augustine wrote:Most of Riot Act:

Stone Gossard wrote:"[A lot of] the [songs'] arrangements were only hours old a lot of the times. We'd teach each other a song in the studio, just figuring we'd demo it up to see if we wanted to do it. But then Ed came in the studio and threw a vocal on it and that was it. There were several songs that we all thought were only demos, but Ed would say, 'I just sang it, that's the take.'"

huh, see that's interesting. i've always considered a demo to be a very rough sketch of a song that's recorded independently by a member of the band, then brought to the band. once the band records it in some form, it ceases to be a demo and is then a rough mix. but i suppose it's still a demo if the band is working it out in studio and it just happens to be recorded? or, stone is just using the term 'demo' haphazardly, which is, really, what a lot of folks around here do and it get's chud's panties in a bunch.

I think a demo is solely defined by the intent. The word demo itself is short for "demonstration," production values notwithstanding. So to me demo implies it is a pre-production, rough draft, which may or may not be revised with new elements (lyrics, melodies, accompaniment, arrangements etc.) at a later point as a newer demo, or finished product. But its really defined by the individual mostly. Have you ever heard Pete Townsend's demos'? He released 2 or 3 volumes of them called Scoop. They ranged from single mic with him on guitar or piano, singing at the same time in his living room; to fully realized versions of Who songs which he'd then present to the band members and producers to replicate. The production values were virtually the same as the albums these songs appeared on. But these are considered demos.

cutuphalfdead wrote:my panties are just fine, thank you very much

Strat wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:my panties are just fine, thank you very much

Turn that guitar up. Add some chorus to that one. Bury this vocal a bit, add some texture with some lasers. Anything prior to the finished album product.

Strat wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:my panties are just fine, thank you very much

Who are you trying to convince?


I think "demo" can be a term that many musicians dont think much about. Many song writers will craft a song, record it and be done with it, knowing full well the song they recorded will forever be mutated, grow and change drastically whether its lyrically or in the arrangement. It's always a sketch that will forever be changing as the muse allows or some shit.

Rough mixes are i think much easier to define. This is the song. Its recorded. It has nothing to do with where the song is at but rather to do with the levels on all the instrumentation, vocals, in the finished recording. Turn that guitar up. Add some chorus to that one. Bury this vocal a bit, add some texture with some lasers. Anything prior to the finished album product.

southp wrote:

Strat wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:my panties are just fine, thank you very much

Who are you trying to convince?


I think "demo" can be a term that many musicians dont think much about. Many song writers will craft a song, record it and be done with it, knowing full well the song they recorded will forever be mutated, grow and change drastically whether its lyrically or in the arrangement. It's always a sketch that will forever be changing as the muse allows or some shit.

Rough mixes are i think much easier to define. This is the song. Its recorded. It has nothing to do with where the song is at but rather to do with the levels on all the instrumentation, vocals, in the finished recording. Turn that guitar up. Add some chorus to that one. Bury this vocal a bit, add some texture with some lasers. Anything prior to the finished album product.

We, the "Pearl Jam Enthusiasts" probably take this shit too seriously when trying to label some of these tracks. To the uninitiated nube they're all demos, and for the sake of Gremmie's filing structure, they just dump everything in that bucket. I agree with pete that it's unfortunate that these mislabeled and low-bitrate files have become the primary source for PJ rarities, but it's a decent place for someone to start. Hell, we all started with 4th generation Maxells so really it's not that bad.

I think the bigger crime over at Gremmie is the lossy bootleg situation when there are plenty of good torrent sites with high quality stuff out there. This coming from a guy who used to watch hours of VHS boots that had been dubbed so many times there was no colour left on the video.

Kevin Davis wrote:I guess when I started the thread I was just thinking of alternate studio takes.

Kevin Davis wrote:I guess when I started the thread I was just thinking of alternate studio takes.

Coach wrote:

southp wrote:

Strat wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:my panties are just fine, thank you very much

Who are you trying to convince?


I think "demo" can be a term that many musicians dont think much about. Many song writers will craft a song, record it and be done with it, knowing full well the song they recorded will forever be mutated, grow and change drastically whether its lyrically or in the arrangement. It's always a sketch that will forever be changing as the muse allows or some shit.

Rough mixes are i think much easier to define. This is the song. Its recorded. It has nothing to do with where the song is at but rather to do with the levels on all the instrumentation, vocals, in the finished recording. Turn that guitar up. Add some chorus to that one. Bury this vocal a bit, add some texture with some lasers. Anything prior to the finished album product.

We, the "Pearl Jam Enthusiasts" probably take this shit too seriously when trying to label some of these tracks. To the uninitiated nube they're all demos, and for the sake of Gremmie's filing structure, they just dump everything in that bucket. I agree with pete that it's unfortunate that these mislabeled and low-bitrate files have become the primary source for PJ rarities, but it's a decent place for someone to start. Hell, we all started with 4th generation Maxells so really it's not that bad.

I think the bigger crime over at Gremmie is the lossy bootleg situation when there are plenty of good torrent sites with high quality stuff out there. This coming from a guy who used to watch hours of VHS boots that had been dubbed so many times there was no colour left on the video.

For those of us who are not very good with torrent sites (I always seem to get a virus or the upload fails), the Gremmie site is great. However, even I can understand that the audio quality sucks.

I wish that all of the good sounding, rare stuff didn't have to come from torrent sites.

I'd pay $$ to belong to a site like Gremmie, where I could download a+ sound quality via flac.

tooch wrote:sorry if this has been discussed a ton, but what did you mean about better man (live) being used for the studio version?

LetMeSleep wrote:

tooch wrote:sorry if this has been discussed a ton, but what did you mean about better man (live) being used for the studio version?

The drum track from Atlanta 94 was used as the bed track. All other instruments were studio overdubs.

bodysnatcher wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:I guess when I started the thread I was just thinking of alternate studio takes.

Yeah, I'm curious about this too actually. I don't wanna derail your thread, but I've always been curious in seeing a list of songs (and where to find them) that have multiple recordings... like the Even Flow single, Alone, etc... Dead Man apparently has multiple recordings?