Red Mosquito

WTF

It's not the Pearl Jam we needed, but the Peal Jam we deserved.

he's right.

The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

Im not a fan of AI at all, so nope i dont want that to happen.

Maybe if they use it for some old boot, but thats about it.

joostone wrote:The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

AI has many worthwhile uses, but artists employing it to sound like 30-years-younger versions of themselves feels like one of the emptiest, most insipid musical experiences that I can think of. The fan-made YouTube videos (“Here’s Elton John singing ‘Circle of Life’ in 1974,” etc.) are amusing in a parlor-trick-ish sort of way, but…no, I have no desire to hear Eddie Vedder record a modern vocal over a 30-year old outtake, program AI to adjust his voice to sound like it did in 1993, and then have 10C put it out on limited edition vinyl.

Using AI to break out multi-track stems seems less objectionable to me, but only because it might allow for a better mix to be made, not because I want to be fooled into thinking that live recordings are actually studio recordings.

Generally speaking, that process feels more like sampling to me (which is an art form I love and greatly admire), with the AI just serving as a tool to extract a more targeted element from the original source recording. That said, it’s not hard to imagine a situation where the human element is taken out of it enough for me to lose interest, though I’m not exactly sure where that line is yet.

Specifically speaking, I thought “Now and Then” was a weak song and thought the way it was marketed was tacky, though I didn’t listen often enough or study it closely enough to know what of it was from the source and what of it was newly written/recorded in ‘23. It isn’t hard for me to imagine a scenario where Paul McCartney samples John Lennon’s voice and creates a genuinely moving new song from it, and I don’t doubt that there was something personal and genuine for McCartney (and presumably Starr too) in working on the song, but…this one didn’t hit the right notes for me.

Weirdly, “Free As a Bird” and “Real Love” are both special songs to me, though I am sure that has more to do with the fact that I discovered the Beatles via the Anthology records and have sentimental memories of them (and just find them to be stronger songs overall).

What was your take on it? I remember it coming up in the Beatles thread at the time but don’t remember much discussion about it.

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

AI has many worthwhile uses, but artists employing it to sound like 30-years-younger versions of themselves feels like one of the emptiest, most insipid musical experiences that I can think of. The fan-made YouTube videos (“Here’s Elton John singing ‘Circle of Life’ in 1974,” etc.) are amusing in a parlor-trick-ish sort of way, but…no, I have no desire to hear Eddie Vedder record a modern vocal over a 30-year old outtake, program AI to adjust his voice to sound like it did in 1993, and then have 10C put it out on limited edition vinyl.

Using AI to break out multi-track stems seems less objectionable to me, but only because it might allow for a better mix to be made, not because I want to be fooled into thinking that live recordings are actually studio recordings.

I agree 100%

I also see its use in restoration when the original tapes are damaged.

A few years ago when the Ten reissue came out and the band released the version of "Brother" with vocals, a few people here (STIP I'M LOOKING AT YOU) became convinced that it was a newly recorded Ed vocal take, with clever EQ and various studio effects applied to make him sound like 1991. I knew this couldn't be the case because, well, it sounded just like 1991 Ed (this was long before the current AI boom) and also, it would've also been such a lame thing to do!

now and then and free as a bird are both pretty, but the problem with those Beatles projects is that John is dead. The only way to incorporate him is as central (and otherwise uninvolved) songwriter…which kind of defeats the point of it being the Beatles, and not just, “we brought a John Lennon song to life.”

So while they’re both fine songs, I never really understood the point. There are Beatles songs that John didn’t play on. There are plenty of songs he didn’t write. The other three should’ve brought in their own material as well, and treated it like one of those sessions where he was too strung out on heroin to contribute. Or too stoned to be opinionated. Or tripping too hard to assert himself. Or just too self-absorbed to be interested. Otherwise, it’s just grave robbing.

As for Pearl Jam, I don’t believe for a second that there are unreleased songs from that era that match the quality of content we currently have. And I don’t need more…certainly not just to have more.

"Free As A Bird" and "Real Love" came along at a time in my life (I was 12-13) when I just had no awareness of what went into creating a song like that, and to the extent that I did I had no real sense of right and wrong about it. I'd probably feel differently if those songs came out today, but when I hear them now, my happy memories win the day.

AI might just be the one technology we should've probably tested and understood more, before collectively cannonballing into ass-first.
It freaks me out a little that every new device or appliance claims to include some form of AI.

As a tool/aid in instrument separation/isolation, I get it.
But I'm having trouble with AI being attached to any artform, especially music & cinema.

Spoiler: show

BTW... "Real Love" slaps so hard when Ringo & George join in.

tragabigzanda wrote:KD, what’s your take on Now and Then? It’s less an AI parlor trick, more a multitrack Frankenstein that leveraged AI to extract some elements from other recordings.

What most people (almost everybody) doesn't understand about that new Beatles song is that AI (which had already existed for years) was really only used to *remove* everything except John's vocal from his demo tape. Otherwise it's a frankenstein of already-discreet multi-track elements from the 60's and 90's, and some brand new things. There is really nothing revolutionary or up-to-date about it at all.

But Apple being first-class bullshit salesmen, were deliberately vague while simultaneously making a big deal out of it to make a big splash in the press, wow Beatards and move units instantaneously, while knowing full well that everyone would lose interest a week later. (As Pearl Jam returns to form again.)

Then they added it to an unnecessary re-vamp of the Red and Blue albums featuring some of the shittiest remixes ever released, to move even more units.

Jorge wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

AI has many worthwhile uses, but artists employing it to sound like 30-years-younger versions of themselves feels like one of the emptiest, most insipid musical experiences that I can think of. The fan-made YouTube videos (“Here’s Elton John singing ‘Circle of Life’ in 1974,” etc.) are amusing in a parlor-trick-ish sort of way, but…no, I have no desire to hear Eddie Vedder record a modern vocal over a 30-year old outtake, program AI to adjust his voice to sound like it did in 1993, and then have 10C put it out on limited edition vinyl.

Using AI to break out multi-track stems seems less objectionable to me, but only because it might allow for a better mix to be made, not because I want to be fooled into thinking that live recordings are actually studio recordings.

I agree 100%

I also see its use in restoration when the original tapes are damaged.

A few years ago when the Ten reissue came out and the band released the version of "Brother" with vocals, a few people here (STIP I'M LOOKING AT YOU) became convinced that it was a newly recorded Ed vocal take, with clever EQ and various studio effects applied to make him sound like 1991. I knew this couldn't be the case because, well, it sounded just like 1991 Ed (this was long before the current AI boom) and also, it would've also been such a lame thing to do!

I'm almost positive that was a modern vocal re-do (circa 2008-ish) from Ed for the Brother release. At least a few parts of it, especially right in the beginning when he comes in. The original from 1991 is floating around. It sounds different and more like Ed did in 1991.

They did something similar for Hold On with re-doing the vocals around the time Lost Dogs was released.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/dead-boys-jake-hout-ai

Punk legends Dead Boys have spectacularly fallen out over the alleged use of AI to generate "fakeass robot" vocals by original frontman Stiv Bators

sweeper wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

AI has many worthwhile uses, but artists employing it to sound like 30-years-younger versions of themselves feels like one of the emptiest, most insipid musical experiences that I can think of. The fan-made YouTube videos (“Here’s Elton John singing ‘Circle of Life’ in 1974,” etc.) are amusing in a parlor-trick-ish sort of way, but…no, I have no desire to hear Eddie Vedder record a modern vocal over a 30-year old outtake, program AI to adjust his voice to sound like it did in 1993, and then have 10C put it out on limited edition vinyl.

Using AI to break out multi-track stems seems less objectionable to me, but only because it might allow for a better mix to be made, not because I want to be fooled into thinking that live recordings are actually studio recordings.

I agree 100%

I also see its use in restoration when the original tapes are damaged.

A few years ago when the Ten reissue came out and the band released the version of "Brother" with vocals, a few people here (STIP I'M LOOKING AT YOU) became convinced that it was a newly recorded Ed vocal take, with clever EQ and various studio effects applied to make him sound like 1991. I knew this couldn't be the case because, well, it sounded just like 1991 Ed (this was long before the current AI boom) and also, it would've also been such a lame thing to do!

I'm almost positive that was a modern vocal re-do (circa 2008-ish) from Ed for the Brother release. At least a few parts of it, especially right in the beginning when he comes in. The original from 1991 is floating around. It sounds different and more like Ed did in 1991.

They did something similar for Hold On with re-doing the vocals around the time Lost Dogs was released.

Yes, but the re-recorded vocals on Lost Dogs definitely sounded like 2003 Ed, there was no effort to make him sound like 1991 Ed. The "Brother" track is clearly young Ed.

sweeper wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

AI has many worthwhile uses, but artists employing it to sound like 30-years-younger versions of themselves feels like one of the emptiest, most insipid musical experiences that I can think of. The fan-made YouTube videos (“Here’s Elton John singing ‘Circle of Life’ in 1974,” etc.) are amusing in a parlor-trick-ish sort of way, but…no, I have no desire to hear Eddie Vedder record a modern vocal over a 30-year old outtake, program AI to adjust his voice to sound like it did in 1993, and then have 10C put it out on limited edition vinyl.

Using AI to break out multi-track stems seems less objectionable to me, but only because it might allow for a better mix to be made, not because I want to be fooled into thinking that live recordings are actually studio recordings.

I agree 100%

I also see its use in restoration when the original tapes are damaged.

A few years ago when the Ten reissue came out and the band released the version of "Brother" with vocals, a few people here (STIP I'M LOOKING AT YOU) became convinced that it was a newly recorded Ed vocal take, with clever EQ and various studio effects applied to make him sound like 1991. I knew this couldn't be the case because, well, it sounded just like 1991 Ed (this was long before the current AI boom) and also, it would've also been such a lame thing to do!

I'm almost positive that was a modern vocal re-do (circa 2008-ish) from Ed for the Brother release. At least a few parts of it, especially right in the beginning when he comes in. The original from 1991 is floating around. It sounds different and more like Ed did in 1991.

They did something similar for Hold On with re-doing the vocals around the time Lost Dogs was released.

Soundgarden's Black Rain is a good example (to my ears) of mixing old/new vocals: https://youtu.be/_GgWqibQJbM?si=OxYG-bXiU1IokqR4

Jorge wrote:

sweeper wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

joostone wrote:The possibilities AI provides both scare and excite me. Using AI to work on vault tracks is something that excites me, I think...

So there are a couple of VS era outtakes (Black Eye, Eastern Beatles,..) known to exist. Most likely they don't have vocals. Imagine 2024 Eddie finishing songs like that. Would you then prefer 2024 Eddie or would you like AI doing some magic an said new vocal parts to kinda recreate 93 Eddie and thus presenting a 'new' VS era song.

Or how about Falling Down. We have the live recording and assume it was also tried in studio But what if it's not recorded in the studio. AI could really clean up the live stems so that a new mix can be done.

AI has many worthwhile uses, but artists employing it to sound like 30-years-younger versions of themselves feels like one of the emptiest, most insipid musical experiences that I can think of. The fan-made YouTube videos (“Here’s Elton John singing ‘Circle of Life’ in 1974,” etc.) are amusing in a parlor-trick-ish sort of way, but…no, I have no desire to hear Eddie Vedder record a modern vocal over a 30-year old outtake, program AI to adjust his voice to sound like it did in 1993, and then have 10C put it out on limited edition vinyl.

Using AI to break out multi-track stems seems less objectionable to me, but only because it might allow for a better mix to be made, not because I want to be fooled into thinking that live recordings are actually studio recordings.

I agree 100%

I also see its use in restoration when the original tapes are damaged.

A few years ago when the Ten reissue came out and the band released the version of "Brother" with vocals, a few people here (STIP I'M LOOKING AT YOU) became convinced that it was a newly recorded Ed vocal take, with clever EQ and various studio effects applied to make him sound like 1991. I knew this couldn't be the case because, well, it sounded just like 1991 Ed (this was long before the current AI boom) and also, it would've also been such a lame thing to do!

I'm almost positive that was a modern vocal re-do (circa 2008-ish) from Ed for the Brother release. At least a few parts of it, especially right in the beginning when he comes in. The original from 1991 is floating around. It sounds different and more like Ed did in 1991.

They did something similar for Hold On with re-doing the vocals around the time Lost Dogs was released.

Yes, but the re-recorded vocals on Lost Dogs definitely sounded like 2003 Ed, there was no effort to make him sound like 1991 Ed. The "Brother" track is clearly young Ed.

I am going to listen to it right now to see. Assuming it's on spotify. And it is.

It does sound like early Ed, but it's so processed and they never formally released the original, so why would they have done that? there's no need for a new vocal take.