Red Mosquito

Kevin Davis wrote:

Billy Corgan is a much better songwriter than every member of PJ combined

Come on, I love the Pumpkins but this is totally asinine.

I don't know, seems on point to me...easily the best songwriter individually, combined maybe not

Maybe I'm just fuzzy on what it means to combine songwriters. In my mind it's a sort of Captain Planet, "WITH THEIR POWERS COMBINED," etc. sort of thing. I do not think Billy Corgan could defeat Pearl Jam on his own, with their powers combined.

Kevin Davis wrote:Maybe I'm just fuzzy on what it means to combine songwriters. In my mind it's a sort of Captain Planet, "WITH THEIR POWERS COMBINED," etc. sort of thing. I do not think Billy Corgan could defeat Pearl Jam on his own, with their powers combined.

They both peaked at the exact same time, and they've both declined in similar ways. The similarities are actually quite striking. What keeps Pearl Jam a vital band to a lot of people when Smashing Pumpkins have been relegated to the obscurity bin these days is the fact that Pearl Jam is still a really, really good live band that appeals to pretty much everyone who loved them back in the day. A lot of people aren't buying their albums but many people still go see PJ when they go on tour.

I'm sure Billy Corgan thinks he can defeat everyone on his own (save for any of his childhood idols), but he should stop trying and focus on getting the last of the reissues out and then take a good long chill pill.

It's so easy to get worked up about bands when they really disappoint you.

Actually, the most disappointed I've ever been with an album was Interpol's Our Love to Admire. I absolutely loved their first two albums and I had high hopes for the third until I heard "The Heinrich Maneuver". There are some good songs on the album but there are also some total clunkers ("All Fired Up" in particular). I've since come to appreciate the album a bit more but I remember being really bummed out by it in 2007. I was disappointed with Zeitgeist too, but that was mostly because the last three songs are a turd sandwich when you consider they decided not to release "Gossamer".

Also, how did that list not include the Green album?

Oh yeah, Monster disappointed a hell of a lot of people. (I absolutely adore it)
You can find at least 2 copies of it in every thrift store in the United States.

The author would have a good case for every subsequent Strokes album after their debut too.

matt reeder wrote:Oh yeah, Monster disappointed a hell of a lot of people. (I absolutely adore it)

I don't remember this at all. The total opposite actually. Most people were happy as hell to see R.E.M. "rock out."

Kevin Davis wrote:Maybe I'm just fuzzy on what it means to combine songwriters. In my mind it's a sort of Captain Planet, "WITH THEIR POWERS COMBINED," etc. sort of thing. I do not think Billy Corgan could defeat Pearl Jam on his own, with their powers combined.

I happen to be a big fan of Captain Planet analogies and so I enjoyed this post.

turned2black wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Oh yeah, Monster disappointed a hell of a lot of people. (I absolutely adore it)

I don't remember this at all. The total opposite actually. Most people were happy as hell to see R.E.M. "rock out."

I know a lot of people who hate that album. I think it was really polarizing. I know a lot of people who hated that album. That could just be my friend group though.

matt reeder wrote:

turned2black wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Oh yeah, Monster disappointed a hell of a lot of people. (I absolutely adore it)

I don't remember this at all. The total opposite actually. Most people were happy as hell to see R.E.M. "rock out."

I know a lot of people who hate that album. I think it was really polarizing. I know a lot of people who hated that album. That could just be my friend group though.

I like the rhythm of this post.

matt reeder wrote:Actually, the most disappointed I've ever been with an album was Interpol's Our Love to Admire.

For me it was the Decemberists' "Crane Wife"--which seems odd considering the number of people who think it's their masterpiece, but I thought it sounded like generic, half-assed alternative rock after what I felt were two albums of utter folk-pop perfection and a respectful follow-up. I've grown to like the odd track on it, but I can never play it without feeling a residual glimmer of that initial hatred for it I felt when it came out.

I agree with a few albums from that list.
But wow, Adore is such an amazing album. Well, it might be disspointing to some since it was really different to the first 3 they had, and it was released after mellon collie, which was huge.
Probably stuff like Binaural or Riot Act (or probably any album released after no code) would be instead of No Code if they were released after Vitalogy, just like No Code was. Since the early fans didnt really expect that kind of stuff.
Well Kid A is really good too, but in the list it says its a great album but not what people were wanting so I have to agree.

I was a freshman in high school when Kid A came out and it was one of the most beloved albums amongst my group of friends. Maybe we were just ahead of the curve.

cutuphalfdead wrote:I was a freshman in high school when Kid A came out and it was one of the most beloved albums amongst my group of friends. Maybe we were just ahead of the curve.

No, that dude in the article was just wrong. It was pretty universally beloved and sounded pretty much exactly like what people expected it to. It was probably the most hyped album of the past 20 years as well, so everybody knew exactly what to expect.

Oh I was wrong then, I just assumed it wouldnt be well received by the older fans for the twist radiohead took (a little like when no code came out) without even knowing.
That list includes most albums that were different from what the artists were doing no matter if people liked them or not. (well, a few, like chinese democracy, were really, really bad)

warehouse wrote:i thought this list was terrible outside of the rap albums. i guess starting w 'warning' and 'no code' wasnt a great start for me. however, the dude did kinda nail the rap albums. does anyone remember when snoop signed w/ no limit? ugh.

I don't remember anyone being disappointed with warning. I still remember people loving Minority when it was released.

Pretty dissappointed by that last Silversun Pickups album.

Mecca wrote:

warehouse wrote:i thought this list was terrible outside of the rap albums. i guess starting w 'warning' and 'no code' wasnt a great start for me. however, the dude did kinda nail the rap albums. does anyone remember when snoop signed w/ no limit? ugh.

I don't remember anyone being disappointed with warning. I still remember people loving Minority when it was released.

i can see billy joe on mtv right now talking about that album. it was disappointing at all, this article is pretty hit or miss. big miss here.

matt reeder wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

Billy Corgan is a much better songwriter than every member of PJ combined

Come on, I love the Pumpkins but this is totally asinine.

It's a matter of taste and I am prone to hyperbole (and I say that mostly because the songwriting abilities of most of the members of PJ are pretty weak, Matt and Ed excepted). Few artists have ever disappointed their fans more than the Smashing Pumpkins. If you guys think you are disappointed with PJ over the last few records should spend some time on Netphoria (SP equivalent of TSIS). Those people are more jaded than any group of music fans I've ever encountered. Smashing Pumpkins fans are fucking crazy.

I'm not that familiar with what Cameron wrote in Soundgarden, but a quick look and assuming all his SG and PJ material is amazing(which it's not) he pales in comparison to the Gossard. I'd even say Stone rates pretty close to EV, when it comes to PJ material and he's definitely wrote more interesting stuff outside the band.

I could definitely get on board with Corgan being as good as any writer in PJ, b/c he's totally running the show.

Haven't checked out Netphoria, but I'll bet Amorica2 gives it a run for it's money for jaded/angry fans.

Oh, Jimmy wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

Billy Corgan is a much better songwriter than every member of PJ combined

Come on, I love the Pumpkins but this is totally asinine.

It's a matter of taste and I am prone to hyperbole (and I say that mostly because the songwriting abilities of most of the members of PJ are pretty weak, Matt and Ed excepted). Few artists have ever disappointed their fans more than the Smashing Pumpkins. If you guys think you are disappointed with PJ over the last few records should spend some time on Netphoria (SP equivalent of TSIS). Those people are more jaded than any group of music fans I've ever encountered. Smashing Pumpkins fans are fucking crazy.

I'm not that familiar with what Cameron wrote in Soundgarden, but a quick look and assuming all his SG and PJ material is amazing(which it's not) he pales in comparison to the Gossard. I'd even say Stone rates pretty close to EV, when it comes to PJ material and he's definitely wrote more interesting stuff outside the band.

I could definitely get on board with Corgan being as good as any writer in PJ, b/c he's totally running the show.

Haven't checked out Netphoria, but I'll bet Amorica2 gives it a run for it's money for jaded/angry fans.

Soundgarden typically wrote / writes stuff collaboratively other than Chris Cornell, who often wrote / writes stuff on his own. A lot of Matt's stuff in SG is Cameron / Thayil or Cameron / Cornell / Thayil. Matt co-wrote "He Didn't", "Room a Thousand Years Wide", "Drawing Flies", "New Damage", "Mailman", "Fresh Tendrils", "Limo Wreck", "Rhinosaur" and "Applebite". That's a pretty impressive resume.

I think I underrated his abilities after re-reading that list.