Red Mosquito

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:Of they have no individuality they are no longer humanity. She would not be killing humans. The virus has already killed them.

they are still living and breathing, and by all evidence are happy. even happier than she. they have no ill will toward her. why kill them? because she doesn't understand?

Well they told her they want to assimilate her and she clearly doesn't want that. So there is a threat and perceived I'll will.

If this show is Gilligan wrestling with AI, I have to believe whatever "they" are up to, it ain't good.

all evidence so far shows this is a good for mankind and everything on the planet. the central tension for me is: why hold onto individuality at all, if it causes so much strife? they aren't zombies. they still think and feel. it's simply that they think and feel as one instead of as individuals.

Fascinating.

Yeah, we have different views of what the show is saying so far.

epilogue wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:Of they have no individuality they are no longer humanity. She would not be killing humans. The virus has already killed them.

they are still living and breathing, and by all evidence are happy. even happier than she. they have no ill will toward her. why kill them? because she doesn't understand?

Well they told her they want to assimilate her and she clearly doesn't want that. So there is a threat and perceived I'll will.

If this show is Gilligan wrestling with AI, I have to believe whatever "they" are up to, it ain't good.

all evidence so far shows this is a good for mankind and everything on the planet. the central tension for me is: why hold onto individuality at all, if it causes so much strife? they aren't zombies. they still think and feel. it's simply that they think and feel as one instead of as individuals.

Fascinating.

Yeah, we have different views of what the show is saying so far.

i'm curious why you would think otherwise

Because I value individuality and I think that's part of what makes us human. And what makes humanity interesting. So, anything challenging that, especially by making everything easier is suspect. Do experiences still matter without friction? If you can do anything, go anywhere, have anything you want without an work, is that valuable? Is that interesting?

I think this show is about Vince struggling with AI and algorithms. I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI. Right now the show is presenting AI as a "virus" that infects humanity without permission, says it'll make everything better, but really is the death of us all.

To me, the central conflict is "we must hold on to our humanity no matter what."

This alien virus didn't ask permission. They have given no rational for what they've done. All they've said is "it's better this way, trust us!" That's a great way for me to not trust them.

epilogue wrote:Because I value individuality and I think that's part of what makes us human. And what makes humanity interesting. So, anything challenging that, especially by making everything easier is suspect. Do experiences still matter without friction? If you can do anything, go anywhere, have anything you want without an work, is that valuable? Is that interesting?

Is interesting human individuality better than peace for all things? Not necessarily "easier", but demonstrably better. No more crime or poverty or unnecessary suffering. Why wouldn't experiences cease to matter without friction? Imagine knowing everything everybody else knows? What's not interesting about that? Everything is for one unified purpose, for the good of everything. No more of, like, I'm horny now so I'm going to go fuck something.

epilogue wrote:I think this show is about Vince struggling with AI and algorithms. I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI. Right now the show is presenting AI as a "virus" that infects humanity without permission, says it'll make everything better, but really is the death of us all.

I saw he mentioned in interviews recently his disgust for AI, so you're definitely right about that. But I don't see how humanity sharing one consciousness and actual intelligence is analogous to an artificial intelligence, or great "plagiarism machine", as he put it.

epilogue wrote:To me, the central conflict is "we must hold on to our humanity no matter what."

Man, I still don't see how you conclude individuality = humanity. She is arguably "less" human than the collective.

epilogue wrote:This alien virus didn't ask permission. They have given no rational for what they've done. All they've said is "it's better this way, trust us!" That's a great way for me to not trust them.

If everything is better, who cares?

epilogue wrote:I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI.

Imagine no more, my friend:

“When your selling point is: ‘This thing is great, it’ll write your high school essays for you, it’ll create your artwork for you if you’re an artist, so you don’t have to actually learn how to draw and paint anymore … You don’t ever need to learn how to read a map or use a compass … this thing will wipe your butt for you.’ What’s left to live for? The creative spark in human beings — it’s one of the most precious, wonderful things we have. What is more important than being creative?”

https://deadline.com/2025/11/vince-gill ... 236612311/

if you think "we should all collectively be one and the same", that's all lovely and very kumbaya on the surface, but then everyone has to find a set of values and ideals, choices and ideals to match; which do you choose, yours or mine or theirs? what do you take and what do you leave? most people who say "everyone should be and move as one!" are actually saying "everyone should be like me"

by which I mean, the show is probably going to turn out championing diversity and being woke as hell, which I'm all for

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:Because I value individuality and I think that's part of what makes us human. And what makes humanity interesting. So, anything challenging that, especially by making everything easier is suspect. Do experiences still matter without friction? If you can do anything, go anywhere, have anything you want without an work, is that valuable? Is that interesting?

Is interesting human individuality better than peace for all things? Not necessarily "easier", but demonstrably better. No more crime or poverty or unnecessary suffering. Why wouldn't experiences cease to matter without friction? Imagine knowing everything everybody else knows? What's not interesting about that? Everything is for one unified purpose, for the good of everything. No more of, like, I'm horny now so I'm going to go fuck something.

epilogue wrote:I think this show is about Vince struggling with AI and algorithms. I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI. Right now the show is presenting AI as a "virus" that infects humanity without permission, says it'll make everything better, but really is the death of us all.

I saw he mentioned in interviews recently his disgust for AI, so you're definitely right about that. But I don't see how humanity sharing one consciousness and actual intelligence is analogous to an artificial intelligence, or great "plagiarism machine", as he put it.

epilogue wrote:To me, the central conflict is "we must hold on to our humanity no matter what."

Man, I still don't see how you conclude individuality = humanity. She is arguably "less" human than the collective.

epilogue wrote:This alien virus didn't ask permission. They have given no rational for what they've done. All they've said is "it's better this way, trust us!" That's a great way for me to not trust them.

If everything is better, who cares?

I guess, my argument would be... is everything better? I'd argue it is not. I'd also argue be careful of any charlatan who "but look, my way is better!" especially when they don't give you an opt-in.

Ms Harmless wrote:if you think "we should all collectively be one and the same", that's all lovely and very kumbaya on the surface, but then everyone has to find a set of values and ideals, choices and ideals to match; which do you choose, yours or mine or theirs? what do you take and what do you leave? most people who say "everyone should be and move as one!" are actually saying "everyone should be like me"

I'm not saying in the logic of actual reality we should all be forced to adopt the same beliefs and values. But in the logic of the reality of the show, so far, it seems everyone is happy and benefitting from sharing the same consciousness. And that's way different than forcing everyone to cooperate. Until there's evidence it's actually harmful, I'm going to assume it's better.

Simple Torture wrote:

epilogue wrote:I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI.

Imagine no more, my friend:

“When your selling point is: ‘This thing is great, it’ll write your high school essays for you, it’ll create your artwork for you if you’re an artist, so you don’t have to actually learn how to draw and paint anymore … You don’t ever need to learn how to read a map or use a compass … this thing will wipe your butt for you.’ What’s left to live for? The creative spark in human beings — it’s one of the most precious, wonderful things we have. What is more important than being creative?”

https://deadline.com/2025/11/vince-gill ... 236612311/

And here we have the central thesis of the show.

Ms Harmless wrote:by which I mean, the show is probably going to turn out championing diversity and being woke as hell, which I'm all for

Ms Harmless is my RM ride or die

epilogue wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:Because I value individuality and I think that's part of what makes us human. And what makes humanity interesting. So, anything challenging that, especially by making everything easier is suspect. Do experiences still matter without friction? If you can do anything, go anywhere, have anything you want without an work, is that valuable? Is that interesting?

Is interesting human individuality better than peace for all things? Not necessarily "easier", but demonstrably better. No more crime or poverty or unnecessary suffering. Why wouldn't experiences cease to matter without friction? Imagine knowing everything everybody else knows? What's not interesting about that? Everything is for one unified purpose, for the good of everything. No more of, like, I'm horny now so I'm going to go fuck something.

epilogue wrote:I think this show is about Vince struggling with AI and algorithms. I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI. Right now the show is presenting AI as a "virus" that infects humanity without permission, says it'll make everything better, but really is the death of us all.

I saw he mentioned in interviews recently his disgust for AI, so you're definitely right about that. But I don't see how humanity sharing one consciousness and actual intelligence is analogous to an artificial intelligence, or great "plagiarism machine", as he put it.

epilogue wrote:To me, the central conflict is "we must hold on to our humanity no matter what."

Man, I still don't see how you conclude individuality = humanity. She is arguably "less" human than the collective.

epilogue wrote:This alien virus didn't ask permission. They have given no rational for what they've done. All they've said is "it's better this way, trust us!" That's a great way for me to not trust them.

If everything is better, who cares?

I guess, my argument would be... is everything better? I'd argue it is not. I'd also argue be careful of any charlatan who "but look, my way is better!" especially when they don't give you an opt-in.

I'm not sure you're effectively imagining what it might be like to actually share the same consciousness as everyone else. There would be no reason to harm anybody, or to get a leg up on anyone, because they are also you. You simply want to survive and thrive. And you have the resources of all humanity at your disposal.

I can imagine a twist in which they are only pretending to be happy or whatever, but so far that seems to not be the case.

And I say to you:

tree_ wrote:I'm not sure you're effectively imagining what it might be like to actually share the same consciousness as everyone else.

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:if you think "we should all collectively be one and the same", that's all lovely and very kumbaya on the surface, but then everyone has to find a set of values and ideals, choices and ideals to match; which do you choose, yours or mine or theirs? what do you take and what do you leave? most people who say "everyone should be and move as one!" are actually saying "everyone should be like me"

I'm not saying in the logic of actual reality we should all be forced to adopt the same beliefs and values. But in the logic of the reality of the show, so far, it seems everyone is happy and benefitting from sharing the same consciousness. And that's way different than forcing everyone to cooperate. Until there's evidence it's actually harmful, I'm going to assume it's better.

at this stage I'd say you are reading the authorial intention correctly, if not searching for cracks in the armour like I am; I look forward to your response on the inevitable decline of the facade!

epilogue wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:by which I mean, the show is probably going to turn out championing diversity and being woke as hell, which I'm all for

Ms Harmless is my RM ride or die

likewise

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:Because I value individuality and I think that's part of what makes us human. And what makes humanity interesting. So, anything challenging that, especially by making everything easier is suspect. Do experiences still matter without friction? If you can do anything, go anywhere, have anything you want without an work, is that valuable? Is that interesting?

Is interesting human individuality better than peace for all things? Not necessarily "easier", but demonstrably better. No more crime or poverty or unnecessary suffering. Why wouldn't experiences cease to matter without friction? Imagine knowing everything everybody else knows? What's not interesting about that? Everything is for one unified purpose, for the good of everything. No more of, like, I'm horny now so I'm going to go fuck something.

epilogue wrote:I think this show is about Vince struggling with AI and algorithms. I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI. Right now the show is presenting AI as a "virus" that infects humanity without permission, says it'll make everything better, but really is the death of us all.

I saw he mentioned in interviews recently his disgust for AI, so you're definitely right about that. But I don't see how humanity sharing one consciousness and actual intelligence is analogous to an artificial intelligence, or great "plagiarism machine", as he put it.

epilogue wrote:To me, the central conflict is "we must hold on to our humanity no matter what."

Man, I still don't see how you conclude individuality = humanity. She is arguably "less" human than the collective.

epilogue wrote:This alien virus didn't ask permission. They have given no rational for what they've done. All they've said is "it's better this way, trust us!" That's a great way for me to not trust them.

If everything is better, who cares?

I guess, my argument would be... is everything better? I'd argue it is not. I'd also argue be careful of any charlatan who "but look, my way is better!" especially when they don't give you an opt-in.

I'm not sure you're effectively imagining what it might be like to actually share the same consciousness as everyone else. There would be no reason to harm anybody, or to get a leg up on anyone, because they are also you. You simply want to survive and thrive. And you have the resources of all humanity at your disposal.

I can imagine a twist in which they are only pretending to be happy or whatever, but so far that seems to not be the case.

for what it's worth, cults are successful because time and time again, people have said they want this

SUCH a good point, Ms H.

And that's an aspect of the show I hadn't really considered. That's a good call.

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:if you think "we should all collectively be one and the same", that's all lovely and very kumbaya on the surface, but then everyone has to find a set of values and ideals, choices and ideals to match; which do you choose, yours or mine or theirs? what do you take and what do you leave? most people who say "everyone should be and move as one!" are actually saying "everyone should be like me"

I'm not saying in the logic of actual reality we should all be forced to adopt the same beliefs and values. But in the logic of the reality of the show, so far, it seems everyone is happy and benefitting from sharing the same consciousness. And that's way different than forcing everyone to cooperate. Until there's evidence it's actually harmful, I'm going to assume it's better.

at this stage I'd say you are reading the authorial intention correctly, if not searching for cracks in the armour like I am; I look forward to your response on the inevitable decline of the facade!

I really hope it goes the route where it is indeed actually better in every way, and her struggle to hold onto her individuality gets chipped away more and more until her inevitable surrender. Not sure we've seen that story before. And it really tickles me and so many ways I can't stand it.

the guy who wrote Speak No Evil would write that story

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tree_ wrote:

epilogue wrote:Because I value individuality and I think that's part of what makes us human. And what makes humanity interesting. So, anything challenging that, especially by making everything easier is suspect. Do experiences still matter without friction? If you can do anything, go anywhere, have anything you want without an work, is that valuable? Is that interesting?

Is interesting human individuality better than peace for all things? Not necessarily "easier", but demonstrably better. No more crime or poverty or unnecessary suffering. Why wouldn't experiences cease to matter without friction? Imagine knowing everything everybody else knows? What's not interesting about that? Everything is for one unified purpose, for the good of everything. No more of, like, I'm horny now so I'm going to go fuck something.

epilogue wrote:I think this show is about Vince struggling with AI and algorithms. I imagine as an independent thinker and an artist that he's very anti-AI. Right now the show is presenting AI as a "virus" that infects humanity without permission, says it'll make everything better, but really is the death of us all.

I saw he mentioned in interviews recently his disgust for AI, so you're definitely right about that. But I don't see how humanity sharing one consciousness and actual intelligence is analogous to an artificial intelligence, or great "plagiarism machine", as he put it.

epilogue wrote:To me, the central conflict is "we must hold on to our humanity no matter what."

Man, I still don't see how you conclude individuality = humanity. She is arguably "less" human than the collective.

epilogue wrote:This alien virus didn't ask permission. They have given no rational for what they've done. All they've said is "it's better this way, trust us!" That's a great way for me to not trust them.

If everything is better, who cares?

I guess, my argument would be... is everything better? I'd argue it is not. I'd also argue be careful of any charlatan who "but look, my way is better!" especially when they don't give you an opt-in.

I'm not sure you're effectively imagining what it might be like to actually share the same consciousness as everyone else. There would be no reason to harm anybody, or to get a leg up on anyone, because they are also you. You simply want to survive and thrive. And you have the resources of all humanity at your disposal.

I can imagine a twist in which they are only pretending to be happy or whatever, but so far that seems to not be the case.

for what it's worth, cults are successful because time and time again, people have said they want this

True, but this is not a good analogy because in cults people are lied to and manipulated. This seems actually quite utopian because all are equal and sharing each other's thoughts. There can be no deception unless you are actually on the outside.

To her though, yes, it must appear that way, with her very limited knowledge.