Red Mosquito

Sarah. wrote:

theplatypus wrote:I don't know, it read like a whole bunch of sanctimonious slut-shaming to me. Why is Miley Cyrus without agency over her body?

Well the implication is that she doesn't because she's 20 and not 40. Which the feminist in me finds really patronising and frustrating but the mother in me wants to agree with.

I think I understand what you mean, because I stopped reading the first letter when dj posted a link to it a couple days ago, and couldn't get past "this is written in the spirit of motherliness and love" which did come across as completely patronizing... (sorry, different spelling in the US!) - but the point seems to me to be valid in that this is deemed an acceptable way for a young, and I suppose talented, young artist to get ahead, change her image, whatever she's doing right now - I don't even know any of Miley Cyrus's music, so I have no idea what she's like at all- but from the angle that this is what's considered "feminist behavior" and as jorge says - she has 'agency' over her own body etc- this is what it feels like feminism is turning into, and (again, just my opinion, which I note because I doubt anyone will agree) it's largely because younger women have somehow missed the point about being feminist somewhere...

I don't have a problem with young women or women of any age having 'agency' over their bodies or their sexuality, I do however have a problem with the idea that this type of use of either isn't degrading or contributing to the gender inequality issues of the world.

there are better ways of using her sexuality, her femininity, her body and her brains along with her talent that won't allow the rest of the industry, or the world to take advantage of her inexperience.
I feel like that's O'Connor's point.

I fucking love this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyV ... OwblaKmyVw

I think regardless of whether you agree with Sinead or not Miley's response was childish and ableist. But Sinead should have dropped it then and not tried to hammer the point home.

Sarah. wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Other than, I didn't really read Sinead's tone as being particularly batshit, I have to agree with malice.

The third letter to Miley I just posted sounds a bit batshit tbh.

I'm talking about the first letter. Which I have zero issue with. Miley's "response" is in poor taste. Sinead's response is a bit dramatic and heavy handed, but I wouldn't call it batshit. Amanda's letter is great. Those are the only one's I've seen.

And I'm not saying Sinead isn't walking a fine line, none of it read as particularly crazy to me. Just some well-intentioned, good advice from someone who has been through a lot of shit.

who gives a shit about sinead o connor anyways.. shes a bald headed bitch who had 1 hit like 30 years ago.. how is she even relevant

miley used her body to be contraversial n sell records, sinead ripped up a picture of the pope on snl to be contraversial n sell records.. id rather see a naked chick personally

Woof...

i got bugs wrote:who gives a shit about sinead o connor anyways.. shes a bald headed bitch who had 1 hit like 30 years ago.. how is she even relevant

miley used her body to be contraversial n sell records, sinead ripped up a picture of the pope on snl to be contraversial n sell records.. id rather see a naked chick personally

Yup.

But it does illustrate the point Sinead O'Connor was trying to make.

i got bugs wrote:who gives a shit about sinead o connor anyways.. shes a bald headed bitch who had 1 hit like 30 years ago.. how is she even relevant

miley used her body to be contraversial n sell records, sinead ripped up a picture of the pope on snl to be contraversial n sell records.. id rather see a naked chick personally

you really should have participated in the N&D thread, friend

I'd be really keen to see the "i got bugs" model of feminism laid out.

Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sarah. wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Other than, I didn't really read Sinead's tone as being particularly batshit, I have to agree with malice.

The third letter to Miley I just posted sounds a bit batshit tbh.

I'm talking about the first letter. Which I have zero issue with. Miley's "response" is in poor taste. Sinead's response is a bit dramatic and heavy handed, but I wouldn't call it batshit. Amanda's letter is great. Those are the only one's I've seen.

And I'm not saying Sinead isn't walking a fine line, none of it read as particularly crazy to me. Just some well-intentioned, good advice from someone who has been through a lot of shit.

I read the first letter and I did cringe a little. I completely get where Sinead is coming from. I have a 17 year old daughter. However as soon as I read it I knew what would happen if I pulled that trick on my kid. She'd walk to the shops in a bikini just to piss me off. She's a good kid, but she'd think I deserved it for being a sanctimonious ass. It would be more likely that she'd act out because of my attitude towards her.

VinylGuy wrote:Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

I don't understand why her mental illness invalidates her opinion.

VinylGuy wrote:Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

Inasmuch as it's littered with strawmen, specious logic and ableist slurs... yeah. Pretty great.

Sarah. wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

I don't understand why her mental illness invalidates her opinion.

Sarah. wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Sarah. wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Other than, I didn't really read Sinead's tone as being particularly batshit, I have to agree with malice.

The third letter to Miley I just posted sounds a bit batshit tbh.

I'm talking about the first letter. Which I have zero issue with. Miley's "response" is in poor taste. Sinead's response is a bit dramatic and heavy handed, but I wouldn't call it batshit. Amanda's letter is great. Those are the only one's I've seen.

And I'm not saying Sinead isn't walking a fine line, none of it read as particularly crazy to me. Just some well-intentioned, good advice from someone who has been through a lot of shit.

I read the first letter and I did cringe a little. I completely get where Sinead is coming from. I have a 17 year old daughter. However as soon as I read it I knew what would happen if I pulled that trick on my kid. She'd walk to the shops in a bikini just to piss me off. She's a good kid, but she'd think I deserved it for being a sanctimonious ass. It would be more likely that she'd act out because of my attitude towards her.

And that makes sense, too. I get where you're coming from. I'm sure when I was a teenager I would have done the equivalent. Hell, I get all bratty like that now from time to time. I just don't think there was anything crazy or out there or even destructive about her initial letter. Nor do I think it was some sort of publicity stunt on Sinead's part. But I'm pretty naive and fairly ignorant, too.

VinylGuy wrote:Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

Ugly.

theplatypus wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

Inasmuch as it's littered with strawmen, specious logic and ableist slurs... yeah. Pretty great.

theplatypus wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Great article:

http://www.antiquiet.com/truth/2013/10/ ... han-miley/

Inasmuch as it's littered with strawmen, specious logic and ableist slurs... yeah. Pretty great.