Red Mosquito

Binaural is perfect

EJ wrote:Rival is my favorite headphone track from this album. Love the dog intro, love the way different instruments are introduced, its just a great song - and, sounds like nothing they've ever done before.

OTG is the other standout headphone track for me. Just a lot of atmosphere and moodiness to it, that I just crave sometimes.

They need to open with Of the Girl more often.

conoalias wrote:I find it really strange that people feel this way about Binaural as it is, IMO, a record that is way more about feeling than about any sort of intellectualization. Tracks like NAIS, SoH, Of a Girl are good examples as they're not particularly complex or sophisticated but they're all about great atmospheric sounds that envelop you. I think if you start thinking about the recording process when you listen to the music you kinda miss the point.

You're right about the mood of those songs; what I was meaning to express is that I think those moods are written into the songs, into the arrangements, as much as they are the result of production choices. "Binaural" is one of my favorite collections of songs but I've never really thought all the studio processing added much to them--to me there's just something amateurish and gimmicky about it, the work of a classic rock band whose idea of an art rock record is just a shroud of deep, echoey sound effects. I realize that's an unfair oversimplification but it's so often the pervasive impression I'm left with after listening to the record. I dunno, maybe it's the result of Tchad Blake not being able to finish what he started. Like I said, I admire what they were trying to do and wish they would try to do more of it. But I still prefer the clarity of the live versions, because I think there's enough texture and mystery inherently woven into the fabric of the songs already.

I really love the sound of this album. "Rival" and "Sleight of Hand" are my favorites.

Rival is really pretty great

Those drums sound perfect.

I've always loved the weird "echo-y" rolling drums at the beginning of Grievance.

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:NEED THIS ONE ON VINYL FUCKERS, RELEASE IT.

It's overrated on vinyl. CD sounds exactly the same.

Finally, someone gets it!

Pearl Jam on vinyl is a scam. And anyone who think they're acheiving some kind of sonic nirvana by listening to the vinyl versions, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Agree mostly, but No Code and Yield are better.

Kevin Davis wrote:

conoalias wrote:I find it really strange that people feel this way about Binaural as it is, IMO, a record that is way more about feeling than about any sort of intellectualization. Tracks like NAIS, SoH, Of a Girl are good examples as they're not particularly complex or sophisticated but they're all about great atmospheric sounds that envelop you. I think if you start thinking about the recording process when you listen to the music you kinda miss the point.

You're right about the mood of those songs; what I was meaning to express is that I think those moods are written into the songs, into the arrangements, as much as they are the result of production choices. "Binaural" is one of my favorite collections of songs but I've never really thought all the studio processing added much to them--to me there's just something amateurish and gimmicky about it, the work of a classic rock band whose idea of an art rock record is just a shroud of deep, echoey sound effects. I realize that's an unfair oversimplification but it's so often the pervasive impression I'm left with after listening to the record. I dunno, maybe it's the result of Tchad Blake not being able to finish what he started. Like I said, I admire what they were trying to do and wish they would try to do more of it. But I still prefer the clarity of the live versions, because I think there's enough texture and mystery inherently woven into the fabric of the songs already.

I think the mixing of the record sets the mood just as much as the recording does. Ed's voice is very much just another instrument which i don't hear in other Pearl Jam albums. There's a benign aggression i'm hearing from all instruments that has nothing to do with the "shroud of deep, echoey sound effects." To be honest, i'm not sure what echoey sound effects you're talking about. Examples?

cutuphalfdead wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:NEED THIS ONE ON VINYL FUCKERS, RELEASE IT.

It's overrated on vinyl. CD sounds exactly the same.

Have you tried on vinyl with headphones?

yup

well, there are definitely layers on the vinyl i don't hear on the CD. A CD can't sound exactly the same as a vinyl, its impossible.

pnjguy wrote:To be honest, i'm not sure what echoey sound effects you're talking about. Examples?

Hmmm, allow me to LAL today and get back to you. Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me.

Expect more words on this topic than you ever cared to read sometime in the not-too-distant future.

Kevin Davis wrote:

pnjguy wrote:To be honest, i'm not sure what echoey sound effects you're talking about. Examples?

Hmmm, allow me to LAL today and get back to you. Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me.

Expect more words on this topic than you ever cared to read sometime in the not-too-distant future.

i look forward to it!

The idea that Ed was struggling with the worst writer's block on this record is incredible to me.

It's kind of a joke that they even called the album Binaural, considering how little they relied on the bin-head input outside of the acoustic songs.

For the rockers...the rhythm section sounds like it might have utilized a lot of the dummyhead on some of those songs. The drums are distant, the cymbals aren't as clear as they might normally be, and the toms lose some of their tonal space to the bass, which can certainly happen. But the guitars have almost no bleed and feature a lot of overdubs...many of which seem to have been recorded with their own room sound.

Typically, when you want that sense of space within a song, you have your room mics for the primary work and close mics that you'll use at low levels to provide clarity and tone. It seems like they let the cymbals and 'room sound' texture move in on a lot of the real estate usually given over to guitar tones (strange, since in any punkish rocker the room sound offers little more than tonal blur), stubbornly refused to change their approach to the guitars themselves to adjust for this, and ultimately sacrificed a lot of the sonic fidelity they could have gained by trying to retreat into a more traditional mix format.

Great song collection. Great idea for recording, and it worked to varying degrees on about half the songs.

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:NEED THIS ONE ON VINYL FUCKERS, RELEASE IT.

It's overrated on vinyl. CD sounds exactly the same.

Have you tried on vinyl with headphones?

yup

well, there are definitely layers on the vinyl i don't hear on the CD. A CD can't sound exactly the same as a vinyl, its impossible.

What he means is that, as far as anyone is aware, every Pearl Jam LP is sourced from the exact same digital master as the CD.

There's no extra musical information magically stored in the vinyl, other than the inherent character and distortions of vinyl itself.

God why are pearl jam such pussies? Running their mouths about challenging their audience, vinyl, uncle neil...

Yet they do what they do.

I don't have a problem with the way Binaural sounds. I just don't think there are some weak songs on the thing. But the highs on Binaural are out of this world; some of my favorite Peal Jam songs.

Birds in Hell wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:NEED THIS ONE ON VINYL FUCKERS, RELEASE IT.

It's overrated on vinyl. CD sounds exactly the same.

Have you tried on vinyl with headphones?

yup

well, there are definitely layers on the vinyl i don't hear on the CD. A CD can't sound exactly the same as a vinyl, its impossible.

What he means is that, as far as anyone is aware, every Pearl Jam LP is sourced from the exact same digital master as the CD.

There's no extra musical information magically stored in the vinyl, other than the inherent character and distortions of vinyl itself.

Correct. Because real vinyl is cut from the original analog tapes, or a flat hi-res file. Pearl Jam's albums have already been squeezed out like digital sausage once they reach the vinyl stage. Anyone can counterfeit a Pearl Jam LP if they have the ability. You just cut the vinyl straight from the CD.

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:NEED THIS ONE ON VINYL FUCKERS, RELEASE IT.

It's overrated on vinyl. CD sounds exactly the same.

Have you tried on vinyl with headphones?

yup

well, there are definitely layers on the vinyl i don't hear on the CD. A CD can't sound exactly the same as a vinyl, its impossible.

What he means is that, as far as anyone is aware, every Pearl Jam LP is sourced from the exact same digital master as the CD.

There's no extra musical information magically stored in the vinyl, other than the inherent character and distortions of vinyl itself.

Correct. Because real vinyl is cut from the original analog tapes, or a flat hi-res file. Pearl Jam's albums have already been squeezed out like digital sausage once they reach the vinyl stage. Anyone can counterfeit a Pearl Jam LP if they have the ability. You just cut the vinyl straight from the CD.

I have to say, when I first learned this, several years ago, it was the first time I was disappointed in the band.

For all their bluster you would think this would be a particular sticking point for them.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

pnjguy wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:NEED THIS ONE ON VINYL FUCKERS, RELEASE IT.

It's overrated on vinyl. CD sounds exactly the same.

Have you tried on vinyl with headphones?

yup

well, there are definitely layers on the vinyl i don't hear on the CD. A CD can't sound exactly the same as a vinyl, its impossible.

What he means is that, as far as anyone is aware, every Pearl Jam LP is sourced from the exact same digital master as the CD.

There's no extra musical information magically stored in the vinyl, other than the inherent character and distortions of vinyl itself.

Correct. Because real vinyl is cut from the original analog tapes, or a flat hi-res file. Pearl Jam's albums have already been squeezed out like digital sausage once they reach the vinyl stage. Anyone can counterfeit a Pearl Jam LP if they have the ability. You just cut the vinyl straight from the CD.

I have to say, when I first learned this, several years ago, it was the first time I was disappointed in the band.

For all their bluster you would think this would be a particular sticking point for them.

I think (from memory) Jack White does the exact same thing.

I recall a fan criticising him online for it and he responded by claiming he didn't even understand the difference; said it sounded fine to him, so who cares?