Red Mosquito

If Pearl Jam is remembered for anything that's not their live act, it's Ten. Additionally, the album seemed inescapable at the time; my first memory of music, in terms of when I started paying attention, was about that record's ubiquity, and this was years before I became a fan of the band. It seems hard to argue that it didn't make a significant splash.

Rock isn't dead. But I sure wish Kayne West was.

Classy

theplatypus wrote:Classy

And this site is known for it's classy posters.

One point being missed among the Ten sales data is that it sold that many records within basically one age bracket. Adele's 21, for example, was bought by all types and different age groups, young and old. Ten was a behemoth that grabbed the entire consciousness of a very specific generation of kids. It truly was the force they say it was.

One point being missed among the Ten sales data is that it sold that many records within basically one age bracket. Adele's 21, for example, was bought by all types and different age groups, young and old. Ten was a behemoth that grabbed the entire consciousness of a very specific generation of kids. It truly was the force they say it was.

Tuolumne wrote: Ten was a behemoth that grabbed the entire consciousness of a very specific generation of kids. It truly was the force they say it was.

Personally, I'd say that was more true for Nevermind than Ten. PJ was almost Alice In Chains-y in the way they shifted from metal to "alternative" in the wake of Nirvana's success. The shift wasn't quite as radical/obvious, but PJ were basically metal doods who saw which way the wind was blowing, made subtle changes to their haircuts, wardrobes, and sound and became "alternative."





A couple years later:

Oops, I guess that's Mad Season, but you get the "picture."

I never thought of pearl jam as metal doods in the early 90s. nevermind was first to grab gen-x and but pearl jam wasn't far behind them.
the haircut thing didn't really strike me as a shift in marketing ploy "let's be alternative" either. they were maybe looking to get away from the classification of grunge around that point but otherwise, they were pretty much always thought of as alternative to the people I knew at the time.

malice wrote:I never thought of pearl jam as metal doods in the early 90s. nevermind was first to grab gen-x and but pearl jam wasn't far behind them.
the haircut thing didn't really strike me as a shift in marketing ploy "let's be alternative" either. they were maybe looking to get away from the classification of grunge around that point but otherwise, they were pretty much always thought of as alternative to the people I knew at the time.

I agree, but I think that's because the death of all that was hair metal was instant and total. But it was Nevermind that did it. Any group that survived did so by following that path and not that of, say, Guns N Roses (who were huge in 1991 and just about to die with the rest of the hair metal pack). To me, PJ were the logical extension of Mother Love Bone, which was basically a (very interesting and talented) commercial glam metal hair band. PJ originally kept much of that image/sound, but with Vedder's voice and image giving some new flavors (influenced by the already changing tides, with hair metal on its way out). PJ changed quickly but I do think they changed. And by Vs. they were already claiming to be "punk" and "alternative" in ways that did not exist in any song on Ten.

PryTo wrote:

Tuolumne wrote: Ten was a behemoth that grabbed the entire consciousness of a very specific generation of kids. It truly was the force they say it was.

Personally, I'd say that was more true for Nevermind than Ten. PJ was almost Alice In Chains-y in the way they shifted from metal to "alternative" in the wake of Nirvana's success. The shift wasn't quite as radical/obvious, but PJ were basically metal doods who saw which way the wind was blowing, made subtle changes to their haircuts, wardrobes, and sound and became "alternative."





A couple years later:

nah, the early long hair look was just a holdover from the 80s metal days; and i suppose holdovers in the music were evident too. once that era was all but extinguished - save for motley crue carrying the torch - the fashion or look of that era died too.

also, eddie supposedly cut his hair short because it was garnering too much female attention, lol.

Whats the last album or act in any genre that would be considered a cultural event?

PryTo wrote:

malice wrote:I never thought of pearl jam as metal doods in the early 90s. nevermind was first to grab gen-x and but pearl jam wasn't far behind them.
the haircut thing didn't really strike me as a shift in marketing ploy "let's be alternative" either. they were maybe looking to get away from the classification of grunge around that point but otherwise, they were pretty much always thought of as alternative to the people I knew at the time.

I agree, but I think that's because the death of all that was hair metal was instant and total. But it was Nevermind that did it. Any group that survived did so by following that path and not that of, say, Guns N Roses (who were huge in 1991 and just about to die with the rest of the hair metal pack). To me, PJ were the logical extension of Mother Love Bone, which was basically a (very interesting and talented) commercial glam metal hair band. PJ originally kept much of that image/sound, but with Vedder's voice and image giving some new flavors (influenced by the already changing tides, with hair metal on its way out). PJ changed quickly but I do think they changed. And by Vs. they were already claiming to be "punk" and "alternative" in ways that did not exist in any song on Ten.

Pearl Jam may have been a logical extension of Mother Love Bone in Seattle at the time, but not anywhere else as far as I can tell - no one knew who Mother Love Bone was outside of that music scene, not should anyone have - from my memory, all those Seattle bands were mix and match as far as who played in what band, they all played in different iterations of each other's bands to some extent and that's what I assume created that 'sound' that blew up across the country as the grunge scene.

Nirvana was set a part from that 'pack' I think because they destroyed everyone associated with hair metal first.
I think there was a host of bands that benefited from that (and what started all the bullshit bickering about Pearl Jam riding on their coat tails and being sell outs - which even Kurt Cobain admitted he was mistaken about in his original assumptions about Pearl Jam, and more specifically Vedder.
Sound Garden and Pearl Jam may have had a lot more in common with on another musically than Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but again, as a musical force, all of the bands that hit the mainstream (if you can consider it a mainstream when talking about the gen-x crowd, which I have doubts about anyway) are what rang the death knoll on hair metal, as well as the more traditionally hard rock GNR
(who I was just as aware of in 1991 as any other band since they were flooding MTV and radio stations) -- as opposed to say Ratt... or Winger? I forget the chronology of the hair bands, thankfully, but they all were doomed by the Seattle 'movement- even though many of the bands that were lumped into that 'movement were not from Seattle.

Vs. wasn't looked at as punk either. and I have no memory of Pearl Jam pushing themselves as such as a result of that release. In fact, vs. was looked at as very typically Pearl Jam when it was released. So again, still alternative, even if the heavy duty production from Ten was toned down on Vs.

maybe it was different wherever you lived in the early 90s and that's why you hold this opinion, but in Boston, which itself was already in the middle of an alternative breakout of bands, Pearl Jam was just as alternative as Nirvana from the word jump.

spike wrote: nah, the early long hair look was just a holdover from the 80s metal days; and i suppose holdovers in the music were evident too. once that era was all but extinguished - save for motley crue carrying the torch - the fashion or look of that era died too.

also, eddie supposedly cut his hair short because it was garnering too much female attention, lol.

Agreed, it was a holdover from the 80s hair metal era. PJ and AIC were at the very tail end of that and both band successfully flipped and became perceived to be "alternative" bands, even though their initial music was still pretty much hair metal. Decent hair metal, but hair metal nevertheless. Ten was not a radical departure from a lot of what was popular at that time. Nevermind was totally out of left field (on the mainstream level, that is). Big difference. Warrant released Cherry Pie in September of 1990; it was a huge hit. A year later, almost to the day, Nevermind was released and Warrant's career was finished. It was pretty obvious that any group who jumped on the metal bandwagon at that point was going the way of the dinosaur. PJ -- the funny stoner metal doods from the Singles cameo -- were smart enough to jump ship. (Or the marketing folks at Epic were smart enough.)

PryTo wrote:

spike wrote: nah, the early long hair look was just a holdover from the 80s metal days; and i suppose holdovers in the music were evident too. once that era was all but extinguished - save for motley crue carrying the torch - the fashion or look of that era died too.

also, eddie supposedly cut his hair short because it was garnering too much female attention, lol.

Agreed, it was a holdover from the 80s hair metal era. PJ and AIC were at the very tail end of that and both band successfully flipped and became perceived to be "alternative" bands, even though their initial music was still pretty much hair metal. Decent hair metal, but hair metal nevertheless. Ten was not a radical departure from a lot of what was popular at that time. Nevermind was totally out of left field (on the mainstream level, that is). Big difference. Warrant released Cherry Pie in September of 1990; it was a huge hit. A year later, almost to the day, Nevermind was released and Warrant's career was finished. It was pretty obvious that any group who jumped on the metal bandwagon at that point was going the way of the dinosaur. PJ -- the funny stoner metal doods from the Singles cameo -- were smart enough to jump ship. (Or the marketing folks at Epic were smart enough.)

I dont think there was enough time for PJ to be influenced by Nirvana, unless you think Ten is hair metal. maybe my dates are wrong, but I dont agree at all.

Ten may have some elements of 80s rock, but not that much. Its not Nevermind radical (from a mainstream standpoint, Nirvana wasn't that radical from a punk standpoint.), but I think its still has far far more in common with what came after (and what came pre-80s) than what came in the 80s.

PryTo wrote:

spike wrote: nah, the early long hair look was just a holdover from the 80s metal days; and i suppose holdovers in the music were evident too. once that era was all but extinguished - save for motley crue carrying the torch - the fashion or look of that era died too.

also, eddie supposedly cut his hair short because it was garnering too much female attention, lol.

Agreed, it was a holdover from the 80s hair metal era. PJ and AIC were at the very tail end of that and both band successfully flipped and became perceived to be "alternative" bands, even though their initial music was still pretty much hair metal. Decent hair metal, but hair metal nevertheless. Ten was not a radical departure from a lot of what was popular at that time. Nevermind was totally out of left field (on the mainstream level, that is). Big difference. Warrant released Cherry Pie in September of 1990; it was a huge hit. A year later, almost to the day, Nevermind was released and Warrant's career was finished. It was pretty obvious that any group who jumped on the metal bandwagon at that point was going the way of the dinosaur. PJ -- the funny stoner metal doods from the Singles cameo -- were smart enough to jump ship. (Or the marketing folks at Epic were smart enough.)

pearl jam was never hair metal. their songs were about dead dads and kids in psych wards, not pussy and, well... more pussy.

malice wrote: Pearl Jam may have been a logical extension of Mother Love Bone in Seattle at the time, but not anywhere else as far as I can tell - no one knew who Mother Love Bone was outside of that music scene, not should anyone have - from my memory, all those Seattle bands were mix and match as far as who played in what band, they all played in different iterations of each other's bands to some extent and that's what I assume created that 'sound' that blew up across the country as the grunge scene.

Nirvana was set a part from that 'pack' I think because they destroyed everyone associated with hair metal first.
I think there was a host of bands that benefited from that (and what started all the bullshit bickering about Pearl Jam riding on their coat tails and being sell outs - which even Kurt Cobain admitted he was mistaken about in his original assumptions about Pearl Jam, and more specifically Vedder.
Sound Garden and Pearl Jam may have had a lot more in common with on another musically than Nirvana and Pearl Jam, but again, as a musical force, all of the bands that hit the mainstream (if you can consider it a mainstream when talking about the gen-x crowd, which I have doubts about anyway) are what rang the death knoll on hair metal, as well as the more traditionally hard rock GNR
(who I was just as aware of in 1991 as any other band since they were flooding MTV and radio stations) -- as opposed to say Ratt... or Winger? I forget the chronology of the hair bands, thankfully, but they all were doomed by the Seattle 'movement- even though many of the bands that were lumped into that 'movement were not from Seattle.

Vs. wasn't looked at as punk either. and I have no memory of Pearl Jam pushing themselves as such as a result of that release. In fact, vs. was looked at as very typically Pearl Jam when it was released. So again, still alternative, even if the heavy duty production from Ten was toned down on Vs.

maybe it was different wherever you lived in the early 90s and that's why you hold this opinion, but in Boston, which itself was already in the middle of an alternative breakout of bands, Pearl Jam was just as alternative as Nirvana from the word jump.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm trying to say: Nirvana broke open the floodgates, everyone else followed. Remember that Ten was released a month before Nevermind. And indeed had that "big" 80s metal production that was rarely heard again after Nirvana broke big. It was completely gone on Vs.

I guess, to me, grunge was just another form of hair metal/hard rock/whatever. That genre included everything from the Ratts and Motley Crues to GNR and more interesting, artsy bands like Jane's Addiction. JA was another band that benefited from Nirvana's success, but they were actually pretty alternative to the other L.A. metal bands of their era. The first Lollapalooza deserves a lot of credit, too -- things were changing. Nirvana was the tipping point, but that had a lot to do with timing and luck. And of course talent.

I was in L.A. at the time, working in a record store. So people knew of MLB and I had a buddy who saw PJ open for Alice in Chains(?) and came to work the next day testifying that she had just seen the single greatest band of all time. We laughed, especially when we heard their funny name. Pearl Jam? Um, okay, whatever you say Crazy Helen. Little did we know, she was right. : )

BurtReynolds wrote:Ten may have some elements of 80s rock, but not that much. Its not Nevermind radical (from a mainstream standpoint, Nirvana wasn't that radical from a punk standpoint.), but I think its still has far far more in common with what came after (and what came pre-80s) than what came in the 80s.

I think the most 80's thing about Ten is the washy production...there's not that much musical comparison to be made to hair metal.

BurtReynolds wrote: I dont think there was enough time for PJ to be influenced by Nirvana, unless you think Ten is hair metal. maybe my dates are wrong, but I dont agree at all.

I do think Ten was hair metal, although good hair metal. That doesn't mean Warrant and Ratt. Maybe I should say heavy metal/hard rock, closer to GNR (who were credible early on), Jane's Addiction (artsy, weird metal), and Soundgarden (basically neo Black Sabbath with Judas Priest-y vocals at the time). Ten was a lot closer to that stuff than Nevermind. Ten came out a bit before Nevermind but became popular after it. Nevermind broke open the floodgates and PJ was among the first benefactors. And they quickly touted themselves as "alternative." Or were touted by Epic or whatever. I don't think they were sellouts, just smart. The path they followed was the direction things were headed in. Alice in Chains did the same thing, and to some degree Soundgarden. The Ratts and Warrants and GNRs, who treaded water and didn't flip, were toast.