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Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 2:15 am
by swan
tragabigzanda wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
swan wrote:Once I tried to be cool to her at the merch stand of a Malkmus show & she called me a fucking loser.
Full story pls
Yea, that's shitty. What's the story?

This was at least 11 years ago. I acted like I knew her & tried to engage in a conversation about the vinyl of Portland bands (including hers) that I collected. Also asked if she had a cigarette I could bum. It was embarrassing & I was being a total drunken dickhead, so I don't blame her at all. Not one of my finer moments.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 3:37 am
by tragabigzanda
pearl jam sucks now

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 8:05 am
by Birds in Hell
Relevant blog post by Ken Stringfellow (Posies, REM, etc.):

http://kenstringfellow.com/2015/02/common-decency/
Promises broken:

how one member of one of the most critically acclaimed bands of all time broke my heart…and years later, what I *really* learned from it.

I remember the day we met. I was in Portland, with my band, and met up with Rebecca Gates, an acclaimed local musician, and a dear friend. She suggested a diversion for the evening, a night of karaoke, and invited Janet Weiss, by reputation a ninja at the karaoke arts. I already knew her work, with a Bee Gees cover band, with Quasi, and of course with her most known band…I was, demographically, predisposed to admiring her.

Our night out together was fun, goofy, undefined. Absolutely enjoyable.

Later, Janet & I worked on an album together–our mutual friend Michael Cerveris, an actor of immense talent, made a record where Janet and & I were the rhythm section. I felt she & I had a great musical affinity; the potential suggested by our previous encounters were confirmed here — she and I could rock; we shared a great deal of perspective. Yeah, I probably harbored hopes about a relationship that were beyond the reasonable expectations of our encounter, but…I kept that to myself, as best as I could do. In my mind, first and foremost, we were comrades, working to make a better world, thru music, thru our mutual commitments, thru our social advertisements.

So, when I started to arrange the sessions for my solo album “Soft Commands” in 2003, I reached out to Janet. There was no question — from any point of view–musical, philosophical, etc…she was the perfect musician to anchor this album. I set up sessions in Seattle with top shelf musicians–Larry Knechtel (the piano player on “Bridge Over Troubled Water”, etc); John Roderick ( the Long Winters). Studios were booked…I was spending about $3000/day from my own pocket on these sessions.

And Janet didn’t show up. Despite the fact we’d spoken on the phone, e-mailed, etc…when the day came, Janet decided that it wasn’t…important? …enough to come to Seattle from Portland. I was devastated. I managed to find a drummer for the session..but that’s not the point. Whatever our rapport was to that point…whatever caché I have as a human in her book…she promised she would be there…and named a price! she would have made (if I remember correctly) $500 for the day. And only because that was what she asked for. If she had asked for $1000 for the day…I would have paid it.

In the end…I felt like some kind of collateral damage of the culture wars. Evidently, you honor the commitments that make you look good. Unfortunately for my career, I can’t think that way…when I tell someone I’ll be there for a recording date, I show up. I don’t have any other agenda. Of course, she possibly thought it *wasn’t* a big deal, or, more likely, realized it was kind of a bum move but swept that concept under the emotional rug, and got on with her life. She never did offer much of an apology and in fact, we never crossed paths again.

For me…individual acts count…credibility matters…and in my world…musicians are judged on their greatness in art, but also their greatness in humanity– the kind of wake they form as they pass thru the bulk of us.

In this world of course, you have to learn not to take things personally; as a musician, professional critics and the general public of the internets will trash talk your art, your appearance, etc. ad infinitum. Most people develop a thicker skin, and in general, I would be one of those…but sometimes some small thing, like the tiny seed that your body can’t process, can fester and cause disruption to the system long after the fact.

I realized, of course, that far beyond this situation–which, of course, I have to give a large benefit of the doubt to Ms. Weis, she had her reasons, perhaps– the result was more about me, and feelings that came up triggered by this event, feelings that I have been struggling with, since being bullied at school for many years–physically, and emotionally. One must endeavor to undertake no actions that result in making one human being feel inferior to another. No doubt Janet’s actions crushed me; without further explanation from her, it became a kind of statement on my own art’s inferiority to what she believed in…(trust me, if she wanted to be there, she’d have been there, offered to reschedule, etc.) That being said, I still admire her, and the projects she’s been involved in. And I still feel we are equals, comrades…

We focus on certain aspects of the battle…when we see a band like Sleater-Kinney we get to use their triumphs as a clear statement contra the fascist, sexist…typicalist mediocr-acy…with which they have achieved so much and done so much good. But the fact is…the greatest evil in our society is represented by the forces of every day oppression: those who would use the existing tensions of racism, sexism, class-ism, etc…to their own political, social and cultural ends. We might not realize it, but we live in a world where advertising, political manipulation, cultural separatism cuts us into separate camps. And we can fall in to the habit of using those differences, artificial constructs as they are, to imagine there are people above and below us on the scale of life. One has to be vigilant, and these days, you can always find affirmation, esp. if you are a well known artist (I say this about myself, Ms. Weiss, or anyone who has a built in support group of strangers and colleagues…you have to ‘check your head’ near constantly.)

As a survivor of bullying, I want to counter this…I want everyone…regardless of stature, to feel part of the conversation. Of course I would have wanted Janet to tell me: “hey. You mattered. I fucked up. I’m sorry” at some point. Of course, now…12 years later, it’s water under the bridge. It’s not *such* a big deal, all turned out OK for the album, etc. You must be asking by now, ‘but Ken, why bring this up now? It’s ancient history.’ It’s precisely the case, that these words would tumble out of me spontaneously this weekend, and why it was still able to make me feel emotional, that shows I have unresolved issues; there was a little dent in my soul that wasn’t smoothed out. Writing it down, and…perhaps foolishly, posting it on my blog…that was a therapeutic release. I had a chance to examine the story with the perspective of time. To look back up and down these paragraphs and say, all is forgiven.

So, to be clear, this is not a story about how Ms. Weiss is a bad person, or deserves to be shamed, or is anything less than she appears to be. In fact, the case that her actions those years ago shocked me into feeling these feelings, and that I pick up the echo of them over a decade later…is a gift. I know from the perspective of the affected that one’s actions have impact on people, often much greater than you know. Negatively and positively. We focus on the positive as artists because we see the effect our work has on people, and we get so much positive feedback on that. I’m always meeting someone new who tells me they enjoyed my work for years. Harder to hear about is to find out about a person you slighted, or ignored, rebuffed, or blew off. It’s definitely happened. And the worst is, as humans we’re so afraid to rock the boat that we almost always take these kind of personal jabs on the chin, and put on an unaffected face. I think that’s unhealthy too. When someone does something you don’t like: tell them. I imagine the reason this event came up years later is that I played it cool when she canceled that day. It wasn’t cool at all, it made me very upset at the time, and that’s…OK. But, like I used to try and take beatings and kickings after school with a strong face, no tears…I used the pattern I’d learned: when someone hurts you, don’t give them power by saying so.

It’s a load of crap. Look at the distortion it caused in me, this kind of thinking. I could have barked at Janet at the time, hung up on her, let her know I was pissed…but no. I’m sure I didn’t. She would have got the message, decided if it was worth an apology or not, and in time, it would all be forgotten.

In the meantime, this former bullied kid wants to say: for all of you who are feeling victimized–you are uncool, you are unnoticed, you are ridiculed, you are hated…I want to tell you: YES. You are correct. You are victimized…and thus, you are probably doing or being something/someone interesting. Don’t give in to pressure from society about what you are, who you are, how you are. Continue, and live as an example of what can be…not what already is.

Good night

KS

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 8:22 am
by BurtReynolds
what a pussy.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 8:56 am
by Birds in Hell
Yeah, dude carries on a bit.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 1:50 pm
by Wendy Carlos's Twin
tragabigzanda wrote:
swan wrote:This was at least 11 years ago. I acted like I knew her & tried to engage in a conversation about the vinyl of Portland bands (including hers) that I collected. Also asked if she had a cigarette I could bum. It was embarrassing & I was being a total drunken dickhead, so I don't blame her at all. Not one of my finer moments.
Still, doesn't sound like you were being a "fucking loser," just some harmless drunk fan. I've seen her behave similarly. She officially sucks.
When you've been on the road for 3 months and you are going on 3 hours sleep and you would rather be at home in bed, the last thing you want is some drunk dude coming up to you and asking you dumb questions and trying to be your friend. If I had a nickel for all the times I saw a fan completely crushed that a musician wasn't thoroughly engaged in their small talk, I would be rich. I don't understand why people expect them to be ready to socialize at the drop of a hat, and then when they don't get what they want, they're all "who do you think you are?". They are not there to make friends or to listen to your shitty demo tape or to provide you with cigarettes. They are there to play you music, sell you some merch and get the fuck out.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 2:13 pm
by EJ
Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:They are there to play you music, sell you some merch and get the fuck out.
That really doesn't leave much time for shagging groupies.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 4:53 pm
by Jorge
Birds in Hell wrote:Yeah, dude carries on a bit.
Seriously! Jesus Christ, I'm almost Team Janet after reading that. That dude sounds unbearable.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:05 pm
by E.H. Ruddock
theplatypus wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:Yeah, dude carries on a bit.
Seriously! Jesus Christ, I'm almost Team Janet after reading that. That dude sounds unbearable.
But he's a survivor of bullying

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:33 pm
by swan
Ken Stringfellow is a douche, trust me.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:38 pm
by swan
Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
swan wrote:This was at least 11 years ago. I acted like I knew her & tried to engage in a conversation about the vinyl of Portland bands (including hers) that I collected. Also asked if she had a cigarette I could bum. It was embarrassing & I was being a total drunken dickhead, so I don't blame her at all. Not one of my finer moments.
Still, doesn't sound like you were being a "fucking loser," just some harmless drunk fan. I've seen her behave similarly. She officially sucks.
When you've been on the road for 3 months and you are going on 3 hours sleep and you would rather be at home in bed, the last thing you want is some drunk dude coming up to you and asking you dumb questions and trying to be your friend. If I had a nickel for all the times I saw a fan completely crushed that a musician wasn't thoroughly engaged in their small talk, I would be rich. I don't understand why people expect them to be ready to socialize at the drop of a hat, and then when they don't get what they want, they're all "who do you think you are?". They are not there to make friends or to listen to your shitty demo tape or to provide you with cigarettes. They are there to play you music, sell you some merch and get the fuck out.

Listen, I completely agree with all that. I certainly didn't go the "who do you think you are" route. I'm not defending my behavior that night, I was a foolish little 22 or 23 year old. It just sucked to have my favorite drummer call me a loser, but hey that's life. I got over it. Like I said, she's been very nice to me a couple other times since then. It's true that she has a rep for being difficult & standoffish, but what the fuck does she owe anyone?

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:43 pm
by Strat
I actualyl didnt think that blog post was douchey. I get what he is saying.


Speak your truth, confront people in the moment, dont harness anger and emotions that will eat you alive for days, months, years to come.

Man up, idiots.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:47 pm
by Wendy Carlos's Twin
swan wrote:
Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
swan wrote:This was at least 11 years ago. I acted like I knew her & tried to engage in a conversation about the vinyl of Portland bands (including hers) that I collected. Also asked if she had a cigarette I could bum. It was embarrassing & I was being a total drunken dickhead, so I don't blame her at all. Not one of my finer moments.
Still, doesn't sound like you were being a "fucking loser," just some harmless drunk fan. I've seen her behave similarly. She officially sucks.
When you've been on the road for 3 months and you are going on 3 hours sleep and you would rather be at home in bed, the last thing you want is some drunk dude coming up to you and asking you dumb questions and trying to be your friend. If I had a nickel for all the times I saw a fan completely crushed that a musician wasn't thoroughly engaged in their small talk, I would be rich. I don't understand why people expect them to be ready to socialize at the drop of a hat, and then when they don't get what they want, they're all "who do you think you are?". They are not there to make friends or to listen to your shitty demo tape or to provide you with cigarettes. They are there to play you music, sell you some merch and get the fuck out.

Listen, I completely agree with all that. I certainly didn't go the "who do you think you are" route. I'm not defending my behavior that night, I was a foolish little 22 or 23 year old. It just sucked to have my favorite drummer call me a loser, but hey that's life. I got over it. Like I said, she's been very nice to me a couple other times since then. It's true that she has a rep for being difficult & standoffish, but what the fuck does she owe anyone?
I was more or less responding to trag.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:50 pm
by tragabigzanda
pearl jam sucks now

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:50 pm
by Strat
swan sure he wasn't talking to tim bierman?

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:54 pm
by tragabigzanda
pearl jam sucks now

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:55 pm
by swan
tragabigzanda wrote:Look, I wasn't there, perhaps Swan didn't take some more subtle clues to leave her alone before she called him a fucking loser. And I agree that a performer is obligated to perform when on the stage, not when off.

I certainly wasn't one for picking up subtle social clues at that age. Thank god I can handle my booze nowadays. I found it weird that Janet would always seem to be manning the merch booth/table at the Malkmus & the Jicks shows I went to. Didn't seem like her bag.

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 6:55 pm
by swan
Strat wrote:swan sure he wasn't talking to tim bierman?

Goddamn, this explains everything

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 7:00 pm
by LoathedVermin72
swan wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Look, I wasn't there, perhaps Swan didn't take some more subtle clues to leave her alone before she called him a fucking loser. And I agree that a performer is obligated to perform when on the stage, not when off.

I certainly wasn't one for picking up subtle social clues at that age. Thank god I can handle my booze nowadays. I found it weird that Janet would always seem to be manning the merch booth/table at the Malkmus & the Jicks shows I went to. Didn't seem like her bag.
you should have responded, "you're the one manning a merch table"

Re: Missed Pearl Jam

Posted: Mon March 14, 2016 7:04 pm
by Strat
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
swan wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Look, I wasn't there, perhaps Swan didn't take some more subtle clues to leave her alone before she called him a fucking loser. And I agree that a performer is obligated to perform when on the stage, not when off.

I certainly wasn't one for picking up subtle social clues at that age. Thank god I can handle my booze nowadays. I found it weird that Janet would always seem to be manning the merch booth/table at the Malkmus & the Jicks shows I went to. Didn't seem like her bag.
you should have responded, "you're the one manning a merch table"
lol. Seriously. That'd been great.