Red Mosquito

I wonder what public sector union supporters feel about a faction of government having the same ability to shut down services as they have.

BART strike is on. I have a hard time believing those outside of unions have much sympathy for the workers.

simple schoolboy wrote:BART strike is on. I have a hard time believing those outside of unions have much sympathy for the workers.

Think we'll hear Obama bemoan the cost of this strike to the public?

surfndestroy wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:BART strike is on. I have a hard time believing those outside of unions have much sympathy for the workers.

Think we'll hear Obama bemoan the cost of this strike to the public?

Maybe some will call for the strikers to be brought up on charges of sedition.

some people here sure don't like unions.

stip wrote:some people here sure don't like unions.

Mostly public sector ones. Generally they are the only ones empowered to greatly inconvenience entire regions.

stip wrote:some people here sure don't like unions.

Yeah, I don't get it.

What are they fighting for? I haven't heard one story with grievances

Electromatic wrote:What are they fighting for? I haven't heard one story with grievances

They came to terms on pay and benefits but the union doesn't want to budge on work rules. Currently, if they call in sick one day and then work a non-scheduled day they get OT as their sick time counts towards their 40 hours. Many of their work rules pre date widespread computer usage so all payroll and reports are generated only on hard copy. Being asked to type is exploitative, apparently.

Green Habit wrote:

stip wrote:some people here sure don't like unions.

Yeah, I don't get it.

I won't have any problem with unions if it weren't for the Wagner Act.

Green Habit wrote:

stip wrote:some people here sure don't like unions.

Yeah, I don't get it.

Really, you don't understand why people have an issue with public sector unions.

simple schoolboy wrote:

Electromatic wrote:What are they fighting for? I haven't heard one story with grievances

They came to terms on pay and benefits but the union doesn't want to budge on work rules. Currently, if they call in sick one day and then work a non-scheduled day they get OT as their sick time counts towards their 40 hours. Many of their work rules pre date widespread computer usage so all payroll and reports are generated only on hard copy. Being asked to type is exploitative, apparently.

The above illustrates the reason I generally side against unions. They aren't fighting against oppression, they are fighting for nonsense.

simple schoolboy wrote:I won't have any problem with unions if it weren't for the Wagner Act.

I don't agree with everything in the Wagner Act but I think that the core idea of having the protection of forming a union without intimidation by employers is a good thing to have.

surfndestroy wrote:Really, you don't understand why people have an issue with public sector unions.

I can understand people having a issue with individual unions or union demands/tactics. What I don't get is the blanket hatred. I also don't get why public sector unions are particularly objectionable. I understand the taxpayers fund their salaries, but really, if we demanded that every public sector worker earns minimum wage then they would lose a whole lot of talent to the private sector.

Electromatic wrote:The above illustrates the reason I generally side against unions. They aren't fighting against oppression, they are fighting for nonsense.

Isn't "nonsense" in the eye of the beholder? I'm not a BART worker, so I'm guessing that those who are have a better idea of what they want/need than I do. If enough people think it's worth it to strike, it may not be as nonsensical as outsiders think.

Of course, I just don't think having an adversarial relationship with your employer and clientele is a good idea or a good way to act.

We're not talking about ending sweatshops here, we're talking...a disagreement over overtime.

Green Habit wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:Really, you don't understand why people have an issue with public sector unions.

I can understand people having a issue with individual unions or union demands/tactics. What I don't get is the blanket hatred. I also don't get why public sector unions are particularly objectionable. I understand the taxpayers fund their salaries, but really, if we demanded that every public sector worker earns minimum wage then they would lose a whole lot of talent to the private sector.

I am against public sector unions because they usually have a government mandated monopoly on the service or are so highly subsidized as to make them a de facto monopoly for all but the very rich. As such, the incentive to stay in business and be competitive is not there to the employer. In my eyes when public sector workers go on strike, it is a form of extortion.

If Honda workers want to go on strike, I have plenty of options. When DMV workers go on strike, I have no options as mandated by the government. Honda has an incentive to keep salaries realistic (including benefits) whereas governments do not. They have the incentive to ensure services are provided. The bigger government gets, the more dependant on this monopoly we are and the services they provide. There is no incentive to negotiate competitive salaries, hence you see some outrageous benefits that have a huge costs that does not affect the politician negotiating the contract. The politician's outlook is too short to care about the cost of benefits.

I actually have no issue with private sector unions. I think some of the rules could be better. I think union a worker should be able to opt out of the union and have his/her dues lowered to cover their share of contract negotiations and union representation on work related issues. I think it is asinine to force an employee to give part of his salary to support political causes they do not believe in. Many would scream bloody murder if the company did this but seem to not mind when a union does.

So what are public sector workers supposed to do if they feel they are getting shit upon?

Green Habit wrote:So what are public sector workers supposed to do if they feel they are getting shit upon?

Decide public sector work isn't for them. The government has not taken their option of working elsewhere, unlike they have with citizens and getting those government mandated monopoly services.

surfndestroy wrote:

Green Habit wrote:So what are public sector workers supposed to do if they feel they are getting shit upon?

Decide public sector work isn't for them. The government has not taken their option of working elsewhere, unlike they have with citizens and getting those government mandated monopoly services.

Seems like a path that will always put government agencies at a disadvantage for quality workers.

Green Habit wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

Green Habit wrote:So what are public sector workers supposed to do if they feel they are getting shit upon?

Decide public sector work isn't for them. The government has not taken their option of working elsewhere, unlike they have with citizens and getting those government mandated monopoly services.

Seems like a path that will always put government agencies at a disadvantage for quality workers.

If taxpayers suffer from poor service as a result they might have an incentive to increase funding. As it stands we are paying princely sums for sullen employees with high school educations. I think FDR is on record as being against public sector unions. We're public sector employees exploited prior tobeing oorganized?

Green Habit wrote:So what are public sector workers supposed to do if they feel they are getting shit upon?

Why can't public workers adopt less dramatic, more discreet ways to sway the government their way? Like companies do. But corruption lobbying requires lots of money and they're simply too lazy for that.