Red Mosquito

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Farmer John wrote:I like to think of Immortality as the penultimate song on Vitalogy.

bold take

Which Beatles song does All Those Yesterdays most closely resemble?

Farmer John wrote:Which Beatles song does All Those Yesterdays most closely resemble?

It's got "yesterday" in it

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

It's true. I never listen to it, but it's simply too long to be considered anything other than the closer.

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Agreed. The band put it on there for a reason. Granted, I never listen to it, but it is the album closer. It’s the last track and is listed as such.

wease wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Agreed. The band put it on there for a reason. Granted, I never listen to it, but it is the album closer. It’s the last track and is listed as such.

it is sequentially the final recorded track on the album. It serves as a post script/post credits scene of sorts. In the movie and maybe the DVD menu lets you forward to it, but the movie is over. The arc of Vitalogy ends with Immortality

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Do your own research, KD

stip wrote:

wease wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Agreed. The band put it on there for a reason. Granted, I never listen to it, but it is the album closer. It’s the last track and is listed as such.

it is sequentially the final recorded track on the album. It serves as a post script/post credits scene of sorts. In the movie and maybe the DVD menu lets you forward to it, but the movie is over. The arc of Vitalogy ends with Immortality

I respect the viewpoint that "Immortality" ends the narrative arc of the album, insofar as there is an intentional, linear narrative arc to even follow in the first place. But the movie analogy doesn't track; many films have wind-down/resolution scenes that precede the credits but follow the climax of the story, and no one would reasonably argue that these scenes are not actually part of the film. Likewise, many albums end on songs that feel somewhat "post-script-y" -- would something like, for example, "Fawn," on Tom Waits's Alice, also register with you as not a proper part of the album? In that case there is actually a legitimate narrative happening, that essentially ends with the previous song, with "Fawn" serving as a sort of reflective overture. How does something like that compare to this?

stip wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Do your own research, KD

I really liked this part:

This extensive Wiki is based on a FAQ originally compiled by forums user cheesejoff

stip wrote:

wease wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

stip wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

stip wrote:immortality (its the closer)

Completely fantastical take. It's not the last song on the tracklist, and Stupid Mop is over seven minutes long. It's very clearly the artists' intent that it closes the album, and any other notion is 100% wishful thinking.

while factually accurate, it is still not the truth

Stip's take on the Vitalogy album closer is the flat-earther movement of the Pearl Jam fan community

Agreed. The band put it on there for a reason. Granted, I never listen to it, but it is the album closer. It’s the last track and is listed as such.

it is sequentially the final recorded track on the album. It serves as a post script/post credits scene of sorts. In the movie and maybe the DVD menu lets you forward to it, but the movie is over. The arc of Vitalogy ends with Immortality

last
adjective
1.coming after all others in time or order; final.

closer
noun
1.
the last part of a performance, collection, or series.

By your own words, Stupidmop is the closer of Vitalogy.

hey guys what’s going on?

Release, Immortality, All Those Yesterdays, Parting Ways, Inside Job.

None of those are “the last part of a performance, collection, or series.” They all conclude and are then followed by something else. Immortality is the only one that isn’t universally considered a closer. Is that simply because of track listing? Seems silly.

Matters wrote:Release, Immortality, All Those Yesterdays, Parting Ways, Inside Job.

None of those are “the last part of a performance, collection, or series.” They all conclude and are then followed by something else. Immortality is the only one that isn’t universally considered a closer. Is that simply because of track listing? Seems silly.

Yes, it is because of the track listing. An album closer is the last listed track on an album, unless that track is specifically tagged as a bonus track. The other songs that follow the songs you’ve listed are hidden tracks.

Using this simple, consistent rule seems far less silly to me than using something completely vague and subjective like “the song that completes the narrative arc of the album,” which isn’t even something most people care or think about.

I’m not understanding why a track being “hidden” somehow allows it to defy the definitions of last and closer.

For which track is the definition more accurate?

Coming after all others in time or order; final.
Release or Master/Slave?

The last part of a performance, collection or series.
All Those Yesterdays or Hummus?

Kevin Davis wrote:

Matters wrote:Release, Immortality, All Those Yesterdays, Parting Ways, Inside Job.

None of those are “the last part of a performance, collection, or series.” They all conclude and are then followed by something else. Immortality is the only one that isn’t universally considered a closer. Is that simply because of track listing? Seems silly.

Yes, it is because of the track listing. An album closer is the last listed track on an album, unless that track is specifically tagged as a bonus track. The other songs that follow the songs you’ve listed are hidden tracks.

Using this simple, consistent rule seems far less silly to me than using something completely vague and subjective like “the song that completes the narrative arc of the album,” which isn’t even something most people care or think about.

youve already had to introduce qualifiers to the simple rule in edge cases:

-the track has to be listed (even if the hidden track is an important part of an album’s ‘story’)

- the track cant be a bonus track (why not? it has a number. it is listed. It is sequentially included on a tracklisting. sometimes it is included from the begining)

-some songs like master/slave we definitely don’t consider part of Release, and yet they are on the same track. So Release closes Ten and not Master/Slave? Why is M/S not part of Release


these are not intended to be gotcha questions. It’s just that the idea of a closer means something different in our shared usage (i think$ as opposed to a last song or last track. A d given the way the overwhelming number of vitalogy listening experiences tend to stop w immortality, the way it can mark the end of a satisfying listening experience, and the extraneous ‘footnot’ nature of stupid mop means that in our practice immortality ends the core vitalogy experience and should be considered a closer in our sacred rankings.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Matters wrote:Release, Immortality, All Those Yesterdays, Parting Ways, Inside Job.

None of those are “the last part of a performance, collection, or series.” They all conclude and are then followed by something else. Immortality is the only one that isn’t universally considered a closer. Is that simply because of track listing? Seems silly.

Yes, it is because of the track listing. An album closer is the last listed track on an album, unless that track is specifically tagged as a bonus track. The other songs that follow the songs you’ve listed are hidden tracks.

Using this simple, consistent rule seems far less silly to me than using something completely vague and subjective like “the song that completes the narrative arc of the album,” which isn’t even something most people care or think about.

youve already had to introduce qualifiers to the simple rule in edge cases:

-the track has to be listed (even if the hidden track is an important part of an album’s ‘story’)

- the track cant be a bonus track (why not? it has a number. it is listed. It is sequentially included on a tracklisting. sometimes it is included from the begining)

-some songs like master/slave we definitely don’t consider part of Release, and yet they are on the same track. So Release closes Ten and not Master/Slave? Why is M/S not part of Release


these are not intended to be gotcha points) It’s just that the idea of a closer means something different in our shared typical vitlaogy experience (i think)as opposed to a last song or last track. And given the way the overwhelming number of vitalogy listening experiences tend to stop w immortality, the way it can mark the end of a satisfying listening experience, and the extraneous ‘footnot’ nature of stupid mop means that in our practice immortality ends the core vitalogy experience and should be considered a closer in our sacred rankings.