Post-Riot Act Moneygrab

[Mine]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

[surfndestroy]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

I really wanted to like Sirens but it is pretty much completely confusable with anything I imagine Bon Jovi has put out in the last ten years.

[harmless]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

Well yes (not the song "Sirens" itself, I'd argue, but the treatment -- the acoustic version on the EPK sounded very different and more Pearl Jam-esque), but we don't have to choose between FD and Sirens. The fact that FD was a no-brainer for Grey's Anatomy proves my point. I don't care whether it *could* have been more bombastic and cheesy, it's pretty bombastic and cheesy. BoB has made decisions all over this album that render them more "accessible" to the ears of indifferent or casual fans... not fans of Pearl Jam, but fans of vaguely decent, unoffensive-sounding music. And that's the demographic I'm talking about. If that sounds too wide and generic a demographic, that's because it is -- and BoB knows it. Make it big with the lowest (and widest) common denominator, and you get the bigger bucks and the bigger reputation as a producer.

[harmless]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

I really wanted to like Sirens but it is pretty much completely confusable with anything I imagine Bon Jovi has put out in the last ten years.

Example please.

[stupidmop]

I dont think they do give a damn. They released MYM too, its not like theyre trying to trick people into thinking the entire album sounds like sirens and future days. I just think that them not giving a damn results in goo goo dolls power ballads and fun songs like ltrp rather than a 10 minute long version of pendulum or something. Then you add a producer like bo'b to the mix and well.

[Mine]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

Well yes (not the song "Sirens" itself, I'd argue, but the treatment -- the acoustic version on the EPK sounded very different and more Pearl Jam-esque), but we don't have to choose between FD and Sirens. The fact that FD was a no-brainer for Grey's Anatomy proves my point. I don't care whether it *could* have been more bombastic and cheesy, it's pretty bombastic and cheesy. BoB has made decisions all over this album that render them more "accessible" to the ears of indifferent or casual fans... not fans of Pearl Jam, but fans of vaguely decent, unoffensive-sounding music. And that's the demographic I'm talking about. If that sounds too wide and generic a demographic, that's because it is -- and BoB knows it. Make it big with the lowest (and widest) common denominator, and you get the bigger bucks and the bigger reputation as a producer.

Well the money grabbing band or who ever for them made the choice about which song was most likely to grab more money. And that song is Sirens and it seems to be aimed at that demographic more than a FD. I guess it ended on Grey's Anatomy because it fit a specific episode's script and it was likeable enough but it's still far from being a big money grabbing project.

[Mine]

I dont think they do give a damn. They released MYM too, its not like theyre trying to trick people into thinking the entire album sounds like sirens and future days. I just think that them not giving a damn results in goo goo dolls power ballads and fun songs like ltrp rather than a 10 minute long version of pendulum or something. Then you add a producer like bo'b to the mix and well.

MYM was in Sons of Anarchy wasn't it. Money grabbing right there.

[stupidmop]

Mikes even stealing his moves from bon jovi. HAVE THEY NO SHAME.


When he's pointing at the crowd, in his head he's thinking 'I have your money, and your money, yours too...'

[harmless]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

Well yes (not the song "Sirens" itself, I'd argue, but the treatment -- the acoustic version on the EPK sounded very different and more Pearl Jam-esque), but we don't have to choose between FD and Sirens. The fact that FD was a no-brainer for Grey's Anatomy proves my point. I don't care whether it *could* have been more bombastic and cheesy, it's pretty bombastic and cheesy. BoB has made decisions all over this album that render them more "accessible" to the ears of indifferent or casual fans... not fans of Pearl Jam, but fans of vaguely decent, unoffensive-sounding music. And that's the demographic I'm talking about. If that sounds too wide and generic a demographic, that's because it is -- and BoB knows it. Make it big with the lowest (and widest) common denominator, and you get the bigger bucks and the bigger reputation as a producer.

Well the money grabbing band or who ever for them made the choice about which song was most likely to grab more money. And that song is Sirens and it seems to be aimed at that demographic more than a FD. I guess it ended on Grey's Anatomy because it fit a specific episode's script and it was likeable enough but it's still far from being a big money grabbing project.

But you're saying all that because you don't like Sirens, right? I mean, they are different songs; one is soft and acoustic, and the other is more overtly "rock ballad". But they are very obviously built and adorned in a similar, very cheesy way. They're different kinds of songs given the same kind of shlock production, arguably with the same demographic in mind. I don't think it's a given that "Sirens" is THE song doing that, and FD isn't. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I mean, as someone who likes it, I would say that "Sirens" has redeeming qualities that lift it away from awfully trite, sentimental shlock, into a song which actually has an impact. FD really does not. It's just a mediocre, inoffensive song with a mediocre, inoffensive production.

[harmless]

I think you're confusing "big money-grabbing project" with "song which is aiming for, catered towards, a demographic with money". FD is not the former, because it wasn't a single, but it is definitely the latter.

[Mine]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

Well yes (not the song "Sirens" itself, I'd argue, but the treatment -- the acoustic version on the EPK sounded very different and more Pearl Jam-esque), but we don't have to choose between FD and Sirens. The fact that FD was a no-brainer for Grey's Anatomy proves my point. I don't care whether it *could* have been more bombastic and cheesy, it's pretty bombastic and cheesy. BoB has made decisions all over this album that render them more "accessible" to the ears of indifferent or casual fans... not fans of Pearl Jam, but fans of vaguely decent, unoffensive-sounding music. And that's the demographic I'm talking about. If that sounds too wide and generic a demographic, that's because it is -- and BoB knows it. Make it big with the lowest (and widest) common denominator, and you get the bigger bucks and the bigger reputation as a producer.

Well the money grabbing band or who ever for them made the choice about which song was most likely to grab more money. And that song is Sirens and it seems to be aimed at that demographic more than a FD. I guess it ended on Grey's Anatomy because it fit a specific episode's script and it was likeable enough but it's still far from being a big money grabbing project.

But you're saying all that because you don't like Sirens, right? I mean, they are different songs; one is soft and acoustic, and the other is more overtly "rock ballad". But they are very obviously built and adorned in a similar, very cheesy way. They're different kinds of songs given the same kind of shlock production, arguably with the same demographic in mind. I don't think it's a given that "Sirens" is THE song doing that, and FD isn't. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I mean, as someone who likes it, I would say that "Sirens" has redeeming qualities that lift it away from awfully trite, sentimental shlock, into a song which actually has an impact. FD really does not. It's just a mediocre, inoffensive song with a mediocre, inoffensive production.

How's that supposed to bring the more money than any other song on the album?
And no i don't dislike Sirens.

[harmless]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

Well yes (not the song "Sirens" itself, I'd argue, but the treatment -- the acoustic version on the EPK sounded very different and more Pearl Jam-esque), but we don't have to choose between FD and Sirens. The fact that FD was a no-brainer for Grey's Anatomy proves my point. I don't care whether it *could* have been more bombastic and cheesy, it's pretty bombastic and cheesy. BoB has made decisions all over this album that render them more "accessible" to the ears of indifferent or casual fans... not fans of Pearl Jam, but fans of vaguely decent, unoffensive-sounding music. And that's the demographic I'm talking about. If that sounds too wide and generic a demographic, that's because it is -- and BoB knows it. Make it big with the lowest (and widest) common denominator, and you get the bigger bucks and the bigger reputation as a producer.

Well the money grabbing band or who ever for them made the choice about which song was most likely to grab more money. And that song is Sirens and it seems to be aimed at that demographic more than a FD. I guess it ended on Grey's Anatomy because it fit a specific episode's script and it was likeable enough but it's still far from being a big money grabbing project.

But you're saying all that because you don't like Sirens, right? I mean, they are different songs; one is soft and acoustic, and the other is more overtly "rock ballad". But they are very obviously built and adorned in a similar, very cheesy way. They're different kinds of songs given the same kind of shlock production, arguably with the same demographic in mind. I don't think it's a given that "Sirens" is THE song doing that, and FD isn't. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I mean, as someone who likes it, I would say that "Sirens" has redeeming qualities that lift it away from awfully trite, sentimental shlock, into a song which actually has an impact. FD really does not. It's just a mediocre, inoffensive song with a mediocre, inoffensive production.

How's that supposed to bring the more money than any other song on the album?
And no i don't dislike Sirens.

I don't understand the question. Many decisions across the album are designed to bring in money. That's true with all albums. If you don't want to bring in money, make an album which appeals to the ears of no one. I'm only talking about how some production decisions are designed to bring in more money than some others. I'm pretty convinced that "Future Days", having been scrubbed up to become suitable for Grey's Anatomy, will bring in more money this year than anything by Jandek.

[harmless]

Production decisions on individual songs will play a part in deciding how many albums are sold, and to whom.

[Mine]

Production decisions on individual songs will play a part in deciding how many albums are sold, and to whom.

[stip]

The Moneygrab™, to me, is the conscious decision by the band to focus on merch, the hits, and tamping down the exploratory & politically leaning side of their music. They're certainly beyond the growth stage and are now in the cash cow phase

I hope they snap out of it and fall into a Neil Young "don't give a damn" phase.

Are there any precedents for a band or artist having done this?

I think that ironically something like Future Days fits that description. It may be indicating many things but "giving a damn" it does not.

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

yes, when I hear future days I don't hear (overly) sentimental and deeply personal song. I hear $$$

[Mine]

I'm not sure it qualifies, because it really sounds like it wants to make money. From us? Probably not, but let's be honest and say that there is a large demographic ready to swallow that shit whole.

I partially agree with this. Case in point Grey's Anatomy. I'm not sure what demographic you had in mind though. I think it's too understated to have any success in a country ballad context. Generally speaking though if there is a song on LB that has a sentimental ballad moneygrabing feel it has to be Sirens. The fact that B'OB likes it and it was released as a single, oh and did i mention B'OB likes it seems to suggest it's the one picked to help with the whole monegrabying affair.

Well yes (not the song "Sirens" itself, I'd argue, but the treatment -- the acoustic version on the EPK sounded very different and more Pearl Jam-esque), but we don't have to choose between FD and Sirens. The fact that FD was a no-brainer for Grey's Anatomy proves my point. I don't care whether it *could* have been more bombastic and cheesy, it's pretty bombastic and cheesy. BoB has made decisions all over this album that render them more "accessible" to the ears of indifferent or casual fans... not fans of Pearl Jam, but fans of vaguely decent, unoffensive-sounding music. And that's the demographic I'm talking about. If that sounds too wide and generic a demographic, that's because it is -- and BoB knows it. Make it big with the lowest (and widest) common denominator, and you get the bigger bucks and the bigger reputation as a producer.

Well the money grabbing band or who ever for them made the choice about which song was most likely to grab more money. And that song is Sirens and it seems to be aimed at that demographic more than a FD. I guess it ended on Grey's Anatomy because it fit a specific episode's script and it was likeable enough but it's still far from being a big money grabbing project.

But you're saying all that because you don't like Sirens, right? I mean, they are different songs; one is soft and acoustic, and the other is more overtly "rock ballad". But they are very obviously built and adorned in a similar, very cheesy way. They're different kinds of songs given the same kind of shlock production, arguably with the same demographic in mind. I don't think it's a given that "Sirens" is THE song doing that, and FD isn't. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I mean, as someone who likes it, I would say that "Sirens" has redeeming qualities that lift it away from awfully trite, sentimental shlock, into a song which actually has an impact. FD really does not. It's just a mediocre, inoffensive song with a mediocre, inoffensive production.

How's that supposed to bring the more money than any other song on the album?
And no i don't dislike Sirens.

I don't understand the question. Many decisions across the album are designed to bring in money. That's true with all albums. If you don't want to bring in money, make an album which appeals to the ears of no one. I'm only talking about how some production decisions are designed to bring in more money than some others. I'm pretty convinced that "Future Days", having been scrubbed up to become suitable for Grey's Anatomy, will bring in more money this year than anything by Jandek.

But how is mediocre and inoffensive production of FD designed to bring "above average" money? Especially coming from someone in PJ. What's the logic behind it? Is a mediocre country ballad with an acoustic arrangement and an intrusive piano the epitome of "wants to make money"? Sirens is what I'd think someone in a rock band would consider a potential big money maker...and not because of it's depth.

[stip]

Mikes even stealing his moves from bon jovi. HAVE THEY NO SHAME.


When he's pointing at the crowd, in his head he's thinking 'I have your money, and your money, yours too...'

[stip]

can we please stop equating 'reaching an audience' with 'making money', even if the former does lead to the later

[Mine]

can we please stop equating 'reaching an audience' with 'making money', even if the former does lead to the later

honesty stip, i have no idea what we're arguing about or what a PJ song that isn't a blatant money making vehicle by design sounds like, if there ever was such a thing

[Mine]

Mikes even stealing his moves from bon jovi. HAVE THEY NO SHAME.


When he's pointing at the crowd, in his head he's thinking 'I have your money, and your money, yours too...'

i can actually picture Jeff saying "let's go write some depressive songs" with that face