Red Mosquito

spike wrote:Just really hard to find common ground with folks who voted in a convicted felon, racist, misogynist, con artist, etc. You have to question their judgement of character, and thus, their own character.

I really do get this. But I think the reality is that it really isn’t that hard to find common ground. The Trump voters I know are husbands, fathers, music lovers, etc. just like me; they’re trying to raise families, trying to make ends meet, trying to give their kids a good future, etc. Some are coworkers, extended family members, etc. What’s hard isn’t finding common ground; what’s hard is being objective and humble enough to understand that common ground doesn’t wash away just because uncommon ground becomes visible. Which, of course, is why we do what’s easy instead — typecasting, name calling, going to online forums full of people who think and feel the same way we do (whether that’s a place like RM, or Truth Social, or a Facebook account where everyone we disagree with politically has been unfriended or blocked) and getting quick and easy validation from echo chambers of our own curation.

I guess I'm just not sure, in a world where we refuse to acknowledge this common ground -- where we refuse to seek understanding beyond our own narrative that everyone who disagrees with us is simply a one-dimensional idiot and/or villain -- what the way forward is. It seems like, in that world, the best case scenario is that we keep having elections that are decided by relatively narrow margins in a handful of states, engaging in an endless tug of war of marginal gains and losses where one administration temporarily enacts legislation that is undermined when an opposing administration takes office, while members of the non-incumbent party stew and seethe and further entrench themselves in inflexible ways of thinking, which are no doubt repeatedly reinforced in whatever bias-confirming comfort zone they have built for themselves. We can all use our imaginations as to what the worst-case scenario is.

I don't know. I really do understand that it's hard, and I empathize with everyone who is angry, scared, and sad right now. It just seems clear to me that what's easy isn't producing the desired outcome.

Well said, KD.

wease wrote:I was actually being serious btw.

How serious?
- kinda
- pretty
- quite
- dead

Kevin Davis wrote:

spike wrote:Just really hard to find common ground with folks who voted in a convicted felon, racist, misogynist, con artist, etc. You have to question their judgement of character, and thus, their own character.

I really do get this. But I think the reality is that it really isn’t that hard to find common ground. The Trump voters I know are husbands, fathers, music lovers, etc. just like me; they’re trying to raise families, trying to make ends meet, trying to give their kids a good future, etc. Some are coworkers, extended family members, etc. What’s hard isn’t finding common ground; what’s hard is being objective and humble enough to understand that common ground doesn’t wash away just because uncommon ground becomes visible. Which, of course, is why we do what’s easy instead — typecasting, name calling, going to online forums full of people who think and feel the same way we do (whether that’s a place like RM, or Truth Social, or a Facebook account where everyone we disagree with politically has been unfriended or blocked) and getting quick and easy validation from echo chambers of our own curation.

I guess I'm just not sure, in a world where we refuse to acknowledge this common ground -- where we refuse to seek understanding beyond our own narrative that everyone who disagrees with us is simply a one-dimensional idiot and/or villain -- what the way forward is. It seems like, in that world, the best case scenario is that we keep having elections that are decided by relatively narrow margins in a handful of states, engaging in an endless tug of war of marginal gains and losses where one administration temporarily enacts legislation that is undermined when an opposing administration takes office, while members of the non-incumbent party stew and seethe and further entrench themselves in inflexible ways of thinking, which are no doubt repeatedly reinforced in whatever bias-confirming comfort zone they have built for themselves. We can all use our imaginations as to what the worst-case scenario is.

I don't know. I really do understand that it's hard, and I empathize with everyone who is angry, scared, and sad right now. It just seems clear to me that what's easy isn't producing the desired outcome.

tl; dr

The only rule is to keep your cool

spike wrote:Just really hard to find common ground with folks who voted in a convicted felon, racist, misogynist, con artist, etc. You have to question their judgement of character, and thus, their own character.

How do you feel about the following voters:

1. Those who are skeptical of how social media and the MSM have convinced us the Trump is evil incarnate.

2. Third party voters

3. Jaded Democrats who think that the real threat to democracy in this election was not having a primary.

Conceivably these are all people that you can still find common ground with outside of politics, no?

washing machine wrote:Conceivably these are all people that you can still find common ground with outside of politics, no?

Nope. Can’t be done. Political identity is the only thing that matters about a person now.

Bammer wrote:

washing machine wrote:Conceivably these are all people that you can still find common ground with outside of politics, no?

Nope. Can’t be done. Political identity is the only thing that matters about a person now.

I understand the sarcasm here, but with Trump it isn't just political identity. It is an overt racist and sexist. Would you be defending David Duke if he had good economic policies and other issues you agreed with him on, but just were able to "brush off" his membership in the KKK?

I still don't understand how someone who regularly bashes the military gets the full support of "Murica, patriot, freedom" lovers. That isn't politics, that is the kind of person he is.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

Bammer wrote:

washing machine wrote:Conceivably these are all people that you can still find common ground with outside of politics, no?

Nope. Can’t be done. Political identity is the only thing that matters about a person now.

I understand the sarcasm here, but with Trump it isn't just political identity. It is an overt racist and sexist. Would you be defending David Duke if he had good economic policies and other issues you agreed with him on, but just were able to "brush off" his membership in the KKK?

I still don't understand how someone who regularly bashes the military gets the full support of "Murica, patriot, freedom" lovers. That isn't politics, that is the kind of person he is.

Hoping this kind of knee jerk reaction dies as we dig deep into how many demographics that Trump is supposedly bigoted towards voted for him.

Could it be that people just see the "orange man bad" BS for what it is, finally?

He's a liar and a conman, sure, but that's not uniquely Trump. He's not David Duke. He's just a politician who somehow struck gold by being the "you're fired" guy in Washington, and the majority of America clearly isn't bothered by it.

"He's a liar and a conman, sure, but that's not uniquely Trump"

Yeah nice one, Tucker.

Ello Sailor wrote:"He's a liar and a conman, sure, but that's not uniquely Trump"

Yeah nice one, Tucker.

Sorry, I should have elaborated on that thought. I was implying that many politicians in America are probably liars and conmen (or conwomen).

These sorts of liberal purity tests gets you a candidate terrified to say anything since they might offend someone. So you get political correctness. You get Kamala Harris. And you get Latinos voting for Trump.

I knew this Latinx thing was gonna bite liberals in the ass

Please don't call me papi

Please don't picture me calling Jorge papi

I like it when you call Jorge papi

Bammer wrote:

wease wrote:I was actually being serious btw.

How serious?
- kinda
- pretty
- quite
- dead

Quite, of course