Red Mosquito

bada wrote:

tree_ wrote:

bada wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:It's really not that hard to not smack people unless you're sure what they said.

dude had a mic; we're all sure what he said, I just don't think we were all privvy to Tree from RM's interpretation of it; maybe they should sort that out for the next Oscars, set up some satellite feed to your account or something; only then can civility be maintained

Uh... I don't think you are sure. He said, "your hair is short, so is GI Jane's"

GI Jane isn't even bald. It isn't even clear Rock knew she had hereditary balding. She looks good. Hard to insult someone attractive for their looks, isn't it?

"it's hard to insult someone attractive for their looks"

do you even acknowledge the existence of misogyny? finding someone hot isn't allyship

Am I in the Twilight Zone? Calling someone hot is not an insult.

Nothing women like more than after they feel insulted by something you say you tell them "but it was a compliment baby" lol.

Wait... is GI Jane hot? "You look like GI Jane"... alright! I'll take it. Where's the insult? She pulls off short hair very well.

You know how after your kid asks why 100 times you say because that's why...because that's why.

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:It's really not that hard to not smack people unless you're sure what they said.

dude had a mic; we're all sure what he said, I just don't think we were all privvy to Tree from RM's interpretation of it; maybe they should sort that out for the next Oscars, set up some satellite feed to your account or something; only then can civility be maintained

Uh... I don't think you are sure. He said, "your hair is short, so is GI Jane's"

GI Jane isn't even bald. It isn't even clear Rock knew she had hereditary balding. She looks good. Hard to insult someone attractive for their looks, isn't it?

"it's hard to insult someone attractive for their looks"

do you even acknowledge the existence of misogyny? finding someone hot isn't allyship

Am I in the Twilight Zone? Calling someone hot is not an insult.

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:Reading Will Smith smacking Chris Rock as "resistance" is exactly the sort of pigeon-brain take you end up with when you discount how much money someone makes.

why? there are many issues here about power dynamics beyond rich and poor; I don't stop caring about ableism when a target has money

Because you have abstracted from the material context in order to find an object lesson for your particular interests, one which is not reflected in the situation as a whole in any meaningful way.

"as a whole"?

maybe you need to explain the "whole" situation as my response is coming from a clearly partial faulty extrapolation of the meaning of a joke; I'm clearly biased

Sure, it's pretty easy if we do a little thought experiment. Imagine Chris Rock's joke was not about Jada's medical condition (as you correctly have argued), but was rather about the longstanding rumors that she sleeps around. Imagine she still takes offense, Will charges the stage, slaps Chris, yells at him from the seats, and then wins his award and gives his little teary speech that was mostly about "protecting" the actresses on his film. What about this new situation--and particularly how Smith framed it to the crowd--would have to change from what actually happened in order to make it coherent? Absolutely nothing--because this was not "about" disability in any meaningful way. It was about Will Smith, his wife, his relationship to his wife, and his *insane* ego as a lunatic millionaire. Will Smith did not slap Chris Rock for ableism. He slapped him because Rock made a joke about his wife, and Will Smith has imagined himself to be the kind of rich asshole who gets to say "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth" and "Richard Williams protected his family."

you have no more evidence for your feelings than I do, but I hope you enjoyed typing your thought experiment out; you're essentially asking me "if we can reasonably reduce your claims to complexity down to my claims to simplicity, then wash our hands and be done with it, shouldn't we?", and I'm arguing no, we shouldn't

your argument is "Will Smith is a rich egomaniac and that's where it starts and stops"; and that's fine, but I vehemently disagree

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:It's really not that hard to not smack people unless you're sure what they said.

dude had a mic; we're all sure what he said, I just don't think we were all privvy to Tree from RM's interpretation of it; maybe they should sort that out for the next Oscars, set up some satellite feed to your account or something; only then can civility be maintained

Uh... I don't think you are sure. He said, "your hair is short, so is GI Jane's"

GI Jane isn't even bald. It isn't even clear Rock knew she had hereditary balding. She looks good. Hard to insult someone attractive for their looks, isn't it?

"it's hard to insult someone attractive for their looks"

do you even acknowledge the existence of misogyny? finding someone hot isn't allyship

Am I in the Twilight Zone? Calling someone hot is not an insult.

I don't know where you are but it's not the same planet as me half the time

tree_ wrote: i'm so confused

bada wrote:tree's just doing his schtick where he keeps walking into the door and acts confused because it was open yesterday and the answer that someone closed to the door isn't good enough.

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:Reading Will Smith smacking Chris Rock as "resistance" is exactly the sort of pigeon-brain take you end up with when you discount how much money someone makes.

why? there are many issues here about power dynamics beyond rich and poor; I don't stop caring about ableism when a target has money

Because you have abstracted from the material context in order to find an object lesson for your particular interests, one which is not reflected in the situation as a whole in any meaningful way.

"as a whole"?

maybe you need to explain the "whole" situation as my response is coming from a clearly partial faulty extrapolation of the meaning of a joke; I'm clearly biased

Sure, it's pretty easy if we do a little thought experiment. Imagine Chris Rock's joke was not about Jada's medical condition (as you correctly have argued), but was rather about the longstanding rumors that she sleeps around. Imagine she still takes offense, Will charges the stage, slaps Chris, yells at him from the seats, and then wins his award and gives his little teary speech that was mostly about "protecting" the actresses on his film. What about this new situation--and particularly how Smith framed it to the crowd--would have to change from what actually happened in order to make it coherent? Absolutely nothing--because this was not "about" disability in any meaningful way. It was about Will Smith, his wife, his relationship to his wife, and his *insane* ego as a lunatic millionaire. Will Smith did not slap Chris Rock for ableism. He slapped him because Rock made a joke about his wife, and Will Smith has imagined himself to be the kind of rich asshole who gets to say "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth" and "Richard Williams protected his family."

you have no more evidence for your feelings than I do, but I hope you enjoyed typing your thought experiment out; you're essentially asking me "if we can reasonably reduce your claims to complexity down to my claims to simplicity, then wash our hands and be done with it, shouldn't we?", and I'm arguing no, we shouldn't

your argument is "Will Smith is a rich egomaniac and that's where it starts and stops"; and that's fine, but I vehemently disagree

That is not what I am "essentially asking" at all, but you're free to think that ableism has been resisted because this one rich asshole acted like a maniac on TV, if that's what makes you happy.

tree_ wrote:Just watched that again, and yup, seemed innocuous to me. Chris Rock is the real hero in how he handled that. But ya'll feel free to call everything racist, ableist and misogynistic.

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:Reading Will Smith smacking Chris Rock as "resistance" is exactly the sort of pigeon-brain take you end up with when you discount how much money someone makes.

why? there are many issues here about power dynamics beyond rich and poor; I don't stop caring about ableism when a target has money

Because you have abstracted from the material context in order to find an object lesson for your particular interests, one which is not reflected in the situation as a whole in any meaningful way.

"as a whole"?

maybe you need to explain the "whole" situation as my response is coming from a clearly partial faulty extrapolation of the meaning of a joke; I'm clearly biased

Sure, it's pretty easy if we do a little thought experiment. Imagine Chris Rock's joke was not about Jada's medical condition (as you correctly have argued), but was rather about the longstanding rumors that she sleeps around. Imagine she still takes offense, Will charges the stage, slaps Chris, yells at him from the seats, and then wins his award and gives his little teary speech that was mostly about "protecting" the actresses on his film. What about this new situation--and particularly how Smith framed it to the crowd--would have to change from what actually happened in order to make it coherent? Absolutely nothing--because this was not "about" disability in any meaningful way. It was about Will Smith, his wife, his relationship to his wife, and his *insane* ego as a lunatic millionaire. Will Smith did not slap Chris Rock for ableism. He slapped him because Rock made a joke about his wife, and Will Smith has imagined himself to be the kind of rich asshole who gets to say "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth" and "Richard Williams protected his family."

you have no more evidence for your feelings than I do, but I hope you enjoyed typing your thought experiment out; you're essentially asking me "if we can reasonably reduce your claims to complexity down to my claims to simplicity, then wash our hands and be done with it, shouldn't we?", and I'm arguing no, we shouldn't

your argument is "Will Smith is a rich egomaniac and that's where it starts and stops"; and that's fine, but I vehemently disagree

That is not what I am "essentially asking" at all, but you're free to think that ableism has been resisted because this one rich asshole acted like a maniac on TV, if that's what makes you happy.

I laughed, so yes it made me happy for the few seconds it lasted

and yes, I do think that somebody high profile learned that ableist jokes can have a consequence -- it's small, but not insignificant that that happened in the public eye; I know next to nothing about Will Smith otherwise, and don't make any claims about his character outside of slapping Chris Rock (I do know that he and Jada are polyamorous, and so am I, so that's nice)

Jorge wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:Reading Will Smith smacking Chris Rock as "resistance" is exactly the sort of pigeon-brain take you end up with when you discount how much money someone makes.

why? there are many issues here about power dynamics beyond rich and poor; I don't stop caring about ableism when a target has money

Because you have abstracted from the material context in order to find an object lesson for your particular interests, one which is not reflected in the situation as a whole in any meaningful way.

"as a whole"?

maybe you need to explain the "whole" situation as my response is coming from a clearly partial faulty extrapolation of the meaning of a joke; I'm clearly biased

Sure, it's pretty easy if we do a little thought experiment. Imagine Chris Rock's joke was not about Jada's medical condition (as you correctly have argued), but was rather about the longstanding rumors that she sleeps around. Imagine she still takes offense, Will charges the stage, slaps Chris, yells at him from the seats, and then wins his award and gives his little teary speech that was mostly about "protecting" the actresses on his film. What about this new situation--and particularly how Smith framed it to the crowd--would have to change from what actually happened in order to make it coherent? Absolutely nothing--because this was not "about" disability in any meaningful way. It was about Will Smith, his wife, his relationship to his wife, and his *insane* ego as a lunatic millionaire. Will Smith did not slap Chris Rock for ableism. He slapped him because Rock made a joke about his wife, and Will Smith has imagined himself to be the kind of rich asshole who gets to say "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth" and "Richard Williams protected his family."

you have no more evidence for your feelings than I do, but I hope you enjoyed typing your thought experiment out; you're essentially asking me "if we can reasonably reduce your claims to complexity down to my claims to simplicity, then wash our hands and be done with it, shouldn't we?", and I'm arguing no, we shouldn't

your argument is "Will Smith is a rich egomaniac and that's where it starts and stops"; and that's fine, but I vehemently disagree

That is not what I am "essentially asking" at all, but you're free to think that ableism has been resisted because this one rich asshole acted like a maniac on TV, if that's what makes you happy.

I laughed, so yes it made me happy for the few seconds it lasted

and yes, I do think that somebody high profile learned that ableist jokes can have a consequence -- it's small, but not insignificant that that happened in the public eye; I know next to nothing about Will Smith otherwise, and don't make any claims about his character outside of slapping Chris Rock (I do know that he and Jada are polyamorous, and so am I, so that's nice)

Did you watch his acceptance speech?

Ms Harmless wrote: I know next to nothing about Will Smith otherwise, and don't make any claims about his character outside of slapping Chris Rock