Red Mosquito

Birds in Hell wrote:It's just strange to me.

Jeff, Stone and Ed's solo records all sound fine - relatively unadorned recordings of musicians simply playing songs - but then they make a Pearl Jam record and it comes out sounding like (what I imagine) Kelly Clarkson records sound like.

I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Yeah I don't get it either. Is it an efficiency thing maybe?

I guess its just preference or whatever. But I don't understand creating all those albums and not thinking that the older way just sounded so much better. BoB is an enigma wrapped in a douchebag wrapped in a skeezey, flat, occasionally unnecessarily adorned exterior.

I kinda wonder if its result of trying to please everyone, and not any one of them standing up and saying, no I think it should really sound like this.

what are the chances these guys just aren't sharing the same studio times these days, meaning less opportunity for full-band performances? i would not be surprised if they don't get together like they used to.

Birds in Hell wrote:I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Regardless of who deserves the "blame," I do think O'Brien being in the captain's chair is the x factor--more than any other record they've made I feel like his prints are all over this album in a bad way, such that I almost feel like I can hear parts in certain songs (the chords picked out behind the chorus of "Infallible," for example) that just don't sound like the kinds of things the band would come up with, like I can almost see O'Brien leaning over the console saying, "Hey, Stoney baby, let's spread a little arpeggio-flavored frosting on that chorus, whaddya say?" and then using "da-da-da"s to explain how he expects the part to sound. Just because the band is happy with it doesn't mean he's not the guy filling their heads full of bad ideas, and from what he's been saying in interviews it seems like he has no shortage of them.

That moment of distortion on the vocals where Ed sings "easy left me a long time ago" is just the worst. It sounds garish and completely amateurish.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Regardless of who deserves the "blame," I do think O'Brien being in the captain's chair is the x factor--more than any other record they've made I feel like his prints are all over this album in a bad way, such that I almost feel like I can hear parts in certain songs (the chords picked out behind the chorus of "Infallible," for example) that just don't sound like the kinds of things the band would come up with, like I can almost see O'Brien leaning over the console saying, "Hey, Stoney baby, let's spread a little arpeggio-flavored frosting on that chorus, whaddya say?" and then using "da-da-da"s to explain how he expects the part to sound. Just because the band is happy with it doesn't mean he's not the guy filling their heads full of bad ideas, and from what he's been saying in interviews it seems like he has no shortage of them.

That moment of distortion on the vocals where Ed sings "easy left me a long time ago" is just the worst. It sounds garish and completely amateurish.

Agreed wholeheartedly with all of this.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Regardless of who deserves the "blame," I do think O'Brien being in the captain's chair is the x factor--more than any other record they've made I feel like his prints are all over this album in a bad way, such that I almost feel like I can hear parts in certain songs (the chords picked out behind the chorus of "Infallible," for example) that just don't sound like the kinds of things the band would come up with, like I can almost see O'Brien leaning over the console saying, "Hey, Stoney baby, let's spread a little arpeggio-flavored frosting on that chorus, whaddya say?" and then using "da-da-da"s to explain how he expects the part to sound. Just because the band is happy with it doesn't mean he's not the guy filling their heads full of bad ideas, and from what he's been saying in interviews it seems like he has no shortage of them.

That moment of distortion on the vocals where Ed sings "easy left me a long time ago" is just the worst. It sounds garish and completely amateurish.

i like that effect and the way it kind of bleeds into the guitar part that follows. Theres a few moments like that in the record. I can understand not liking it for the artifice, though

I agree with your post on the whole KD, but a few have commented on that Pendulum line, and I don't get it. What's wrong with the distortion? It's obviously there, but to me it sounds fine.

didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

Birds in Hell wrote:It's just strange to me.

Jeff, Stone and Ed's solo records all sound fine - relatively unadorned recordings of musicians simply playing songs - but then they make a Pearl Jam record and it comes out sounding like (what I imagine) Kelly Clarkson records sound like.

I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Which kills me because the last guy produced the best sounding record they've done.

numbers wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:It's just strange to me.

Jeff, Stone and Ed's solo records all sound fine - relatively unadorned recordings of musicians simply playing songs - but then they make a Pearl Jam record and it comes out sounding like (what I imagine) Kelly Clarkson records sound like.

I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Which kills me because the last guy produced the best sounding record they've done.

S/T was pretty bad though.

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

I thought he said that BoB just didn't like it or wasn't pushing for it.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

I thought he said that BoB just didn't like it or wasn't pushing for it.

On the radio show where the band talks through all the tracks, there is a quote from Jeff saying that he stayed late one night with another sound engineer (not BoB) and that they recorded loads of fun stuff on Pendulum while BoB wasn't there, like bowed guitars and stuff. He said that that stuff might not have appeared if BoB had been in the room at the time. So that's pretty telling. Whether that means BoB didn't produce those vocals I'm not sure, but it does mean that he had significantly less influence on this song.

I remember reading articles about the bands struggles with BOB during the making of Vs. It was basically said that they fought against BOBs attempts to make the songs sound poppier. Imagine how good lightning bolt could be if Eddie still fought him like that.

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

I thought he said that BoB just didn't like it or wasn't pushing for it.

On the radio show where the band talks through all the tracks, there is a quote from Jeff saying that he stayed late one night with another sound engineer (not BoB) and that they recorded loads of fun stuff on Pendulum while BoB wasn't there, like bowed guitars and stuff. He said that that stuff might not have appeared if BoB had been in the room at the time. So that's pretty telling. Whether that means BoB didn't produce those vocals I'm not sure, but it does mean that he had significantly less influence on this song.

oh for sure. But if BoB didn't produce this one in the end someone else would have a credit at the end of the record, right?

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

I thought he said that BoB just didn't like it or wasn't pushing for it.

On the radio show where the band talks through all the tracks, there is a quote from Jeff saying that he stayed late one night with another sound engineer (not BoB) and that they recorded loads of fun stuff on Pendulum while BoB wasn't there, like bowed guitars and stuff. He said that that stuff might not have appeared if BoB had been in the room at the time. So that's pretty telling. Whether that means BoB didn't produce those vocals I'm not sure, but it does mean that he had significantly less influence on this song.

oh for sure. But if BoB didn't produce this one in the end someone else would have a credit at the end of the record, right?

maybe they had but BoB made the band delete it

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

I thought he said that BoB just didn't like it or wasn't pushing for it.

On the radio show where the band talks through all the tracks, there is a quote from Jeff saying that he stayed late one night with another sound engineer (not BoB) and that they recorded loads of fun stuff on Pendulum while BoB wasn't there, like bowed guitars and stuff. He said that that stuff might not have appeared if BoB had been in the room at the time. So that's pretty telling. Whether that means BoB didn't produce those vocals I'm not sure, but it does mean that he had significantly less influence on this song.

oh for sure. But if BoB didn't produce this one in the end someone else would have a credit at the end of the record, right?

He worked on it with John? Burton. Sound engineer?

Birds in Hell wrote:

stupidmop wrote:And wow someone mentioned it before, but that fade after 'my shadow left me long ago' is weird. Everything under that guitar echo drops to completely nothing real fast.

Yeah, one of the other things I don't really like about the production on the song. Though I've made this comment about other songs too, it applies equally here - I want to hear the room on this one, not a bunch of isolated and discreet parts layered on top of one another, existing in their own space.

It's not as though I don't think there's a place for records that sound nothing like a bunch of musicians playing a song in a room, I just think that's where this band's strengths lie.

I've really enjoyed what I've heard of the live versions of this song on YouTube, I wish they'd managed to work that seem feel into the studio recording (cue "that's what young people do").

the first time i heard this one was the live version from pittsburgh, and was disappointed with the studio version for the reasons you outlined here. the band's unwillingness to embrace methods of production that capture ambient textures and atmosphere is one of my primary complaints with their post-2003 output.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:didnt jeff say BOB didnt have anything to do w/ this song?

I thought that's what was said, yeah.

I thought he said that BoB just didn't like it or wasn't pushing for it.

On the radio show where the band talks through all the tracks, there is a quote from Jeff saying that he stayed late one night with another sound engineer (not BoB) and that they recorded loads of fun stuff on Pendulum while BoB wasn't there, like bowed guitars and stuff. He said that that stuff might not have appeared if BoB had been in the room at the time. So that's pretty telling. Whether that means BoB didn't produce those vocals I'm not sure, but it does mean that he had significantly less influence on this song.

oh for sure. But if BoB didn't produce this one in the end someone else would have a credit at the end of the record, right?

There are other sound engineers in the liner notes. Producer has overall control on the sound and concept of the record, but there are secondary sound engineers that work on it. His name (which I've forgotten) is there.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:I don't think you can shelve the blame on O'Brien either, I presume the band must be really happy with how he makes them sound.

Regardless of who deserves the "blame," I do think O'Brien being in the captain's chair is the x factor--more than any other record they've made I feel like his prints are all over this album in a bad way, such that I almost feel like I can hear parts in certain songs (the chords picked out behind the chorus of "Infallible," for example) that just don't sound like the kinds of things the band would come up with, like I can almost see O'Brien leaning over the console saying, "Hey, Stoney baby, let's spread a little arpeggio-flavored frosting on that chorus, whaddya say?" and then using "da-da-da"s to explain how he expects the part to sound. Just because the band is happy with it doesn't mean he's not the guy filling their heads full of bad ideas, and from what he's been saying in interviews it seems like he has no shortage of them.

That moment of distortion on the vocals where Ed sings "easy left me a long time ago" is just the worst. It sounds garish and completely amateurish.

yes