RIP Chris Cornell 1964 - 2017

[evenslow]

I came to the independent conclusion that Chris's death was an accident.

We'll make sure to send your findings to the Wayne County Medical Examiner.

[malice]

I came to the independent conclusion that Chris's death was an accident.

We'll make sure to send your findings to the Wayne County Medical Examiner.

No picking on knee tunes

[evenslow]

None of us know jack shit.

[malice]

None of us know jack shit.

Yes, friend. I agree, but im hoping everyone takes into consideration that theres really nothing wrong with anyone havng the opinion that they think it was an accident. I dunno, i think there's a ton of unexpressed anger going on right now, and it's manifested as sharp remarks at each other, not any different irl to me, death and loss are typically handled this way. I dont assume youre mean, really i was only defending kt because shes a pretty awesome person.

[evenslow]

None of us know jack shit.

Yes, friend. I agree, but im hoping everyone takes into consideration that theres really nothing wrong with anyone havng the opinion that they think it was an accident. I dunno, i think there's a ton of unexpressed anger going on right now, and it's manifested as sharp remarks at each other, not any different irl to me, death and lose are typically handled this way. I dont assume youre mean, really i was only defending kt because shes a pretty awesome person.

I wasn't going after her just making a typically sarcastic remark b/c I think the speculation has gotten out of hand. I apologize for being a dick.

[malice]

None of us know jack shit.

Yes, friend. I agree, but im hoping everyone takes into consideration that theres really nothing wrong with anyone havng the opinion that they think it was an accident. I dunno, i think there's a ton of unexpressed anger going on right now, and it's manifested as sharp remarks at each other, not any different irl to me, death and lose are typically handled this way. I dont assume youre mean, really i was only defending kt because shes a pretty awesome person.

I wasn't going after her just making a typically sarcastic remark b/c I think the speculation has gotten out of hand. I apologize for being a dick.

Anyone that starts their own birthday thread is ok by me

[verb_to_trust]

So speculation is okay, but only if it's from certain people. Everyone got that?

[malice]

So speculation is okay, but only if it's from certain people. Everyone got that?

fuck off bird

[Dev]

I just posted a quote by a psychiatrist who explained that an ativan blackout would not be the main reason someone kills themselves. No one acknowledged it. The reason I think it is important to talk about these things is because with a better understanding of these subjects we can do more to help/protect ourselves and others.

[Oversize]

I have so many thoughts about this... and have struggled over the last week to hold it all together. I won't get too deep or long-winded on this post. I'm a long-time anxiety sufferer and user of benzos as well (1.5 mg to 2 mg of klonopin per day for the last 12 years).

Anyhow, what troubles me most about this whole situation is that there is no discussion of a note. Someone with that kind of family life, if this were premeditated in any way, would have left a note. And, not just a note... a masterpiece of a note. Something that revealed why he could not continue in this world and apologized to his family and his brothers in Soundgarden, Audioslave and Temple...

Chris just seemed like the kind of person that would have went out of his way to do that.

And he didn't... so something is off.

[Tuolumne]

I just posted a quote by a psychiatrist who explained that an ativan blackout would not be the main reason someone kills themselves. No one acknowledged it. The reason I think it is important to talk about these things is because with a better understanding of these subjects we can do more to help/protect ourselves and others.

I've heard this as well. I guess my uneducated assumption is that he did have a past of being depressed and stuff. Could the Ativan blackout cause him to go back into that prior history somehow, and prevent him from realizing that he was long past that stage in his life? Like he lost perspective of time or something? Sort of like ex-football players who have issues with life post-concussion? I dunno, I am beyond puzzled by this. I agree, it was known how much of a family man he was, and he didn't leave a note? Just an hour after the show? Just weird altogether. I have to think there is something that can be scientifically explained aside from anything we've yet heard......

[Dev]

I just posted a quote by a psychiatrist who explained that an ativan blackout would not be the main reason someone kills themselves. No one acknowledged it. The reason I think it is important to talk about these things is because with a better understanding of these subjects we can do more to help/protect ourselves and others.

I've heard this as well. I guess my uneducated assumption is that he did have a past of being depressed and stuff. Could the Ativan blackout cause him to go back into that prior history somehow, and prevent him from realizing that he was long past that stage in his life? Like he lost perspective of time or something? Sort of like ex-football players who have issues with life post-concussion? I dunno, I am beyond puzzled by this. I agree, it was known how much of a family man he was, and he didn't leave a note? Just an hour after the show? Just weird altogether. I have to think there is something that can be scientifically explained aside from anything we've yet heard......

It's hard to define lost perspective. When you have a bad day you can lose perspective. Getting high or drunk or having an ativan blackout can do the same. To me these all boil down to minor psychotic experiences, but like I said unless you are schizophrenic, it's not like you are taken to another world. You ultimately believe the same things your feelings just become somewhat exaggerated. However, it doesn't sound like him taking a couple pills was really all that unusual. If it was wouldn't his bodyguard have been concerned about him in the first place, after administering the pills? The point is that suicidal people sometimes are on something when they kill themselves. Maybe that substance even exaggerates their depressive feelings, but they have to have those feelings in the first place, and they are likely already seriously thinking about suicide when they go through with the act. Maybe he even took the pills so that he could go through with the act. That makes more sense than the pills taking him on some crazy ride. I have taken lorazepam. It's not that crazy of a drug, but it definitely would help calm the nerves if you had to do something fucked up. Even when I have been wrecked on psychedelics, I still know to an extent what reality is. I am aware I am high and just need to come down. I'm kind of rambling, but I think I am making the point.

I really just hate where we are as a society with understanding these issues. Yes, there are factors outside of our control when it comes to mental illness, but we are still autonomous human beings that are a huge part of the equation.

[Dev]

I have so many thoughts about this... and have struggled over the last week to hold it all together. I won't get too deep or long-winded on this post. I'm a long-time anxiety sufferer and user of benzos as well (1.5 mg to 2 mg of klonopin per day for the last 12 years).

Anyhow, what troubles me most about this whole situation is that there is no discussion of a note. Someone with that kind of family life, if this were premeditated in any way, would have left a note. And, not just a note... a masterpiece of a note. Something that revealed why he could not continue in this world and apologized to his family and his brothers in Soundgarden, Audioslave and Temple...

Chris just seemed like the kind of person that would have went out of his way to do that.

And he didn't... so something is off.

Yeah, I just don't think it is necessarily true that someone would leave a note, but I see where you are coming from. Maybe leaving a note didn't make sense to Chris.

[Jorge]

Wouldn't an "Ativan blackout" essentially constitute a dissociative episode?

[Dev]

Wouldn't an "Ativan blackout" essentially constitute a dissociative episode?

Honestly I think the term "Ativan blackout" is a bit overbearing. "Ativan induced psychosis" would be better. I would argue that a disassociate state is probably typical of many if not all psychotic episodes. But also, the power of dissociative state is probably misunderstood. It is really more a type of emotional/cognitive disposition than a complete loss of reality. Actually I think a disassociate state is better characterized as a sense of lost reality, but I believe you still ultimately possess a sense of reality.

[Dev]

Someone in a disassociate state might ask "who am I?" Even the fact that they are asking that questions shows they possess some sense of reality. Alternatively, someone in a disassociate state would not state, "I am Donald Trump."

[Jorge]

My girlfriend has had experiences with dissociation related to trauma and she describes it as a fugue state, kind of like a jump-cut in your ability to be mindful and present. It's apparently one of the scariest things in the world because, as she describes it, you really do slip away from yourself. I don't know if that's anything like what Cornell went through, because I don't know anything about Ativan, but it seems to be what the family wants to desperately believe happened.

[Dev]

My girlfriend has had experiences with dissociation related to trauma and she describes it as a fugue state, kind of like a jump-cut in your ability to be mindful and present. It's apparently one of the scariest things in the world because, as she describes it, you really do slip away from yourself. I don't know if that's anything like what Cornell went through, because I don't know anything about Ativan, but it seems to be what the family wants to desperately believe happened.

See I totally get what she is saying but just the fact that she can describe the experience shows that it is not completely overpowering, but yes the sensation she characterizes is completely typical. It happens to me to, and it is scary, but it is a sensation and not a complete loss of reality.

I work in the mental health field right. I see this shit everyday. People will freak out, and trip out, but they are always there in some capacity (in 99.9% of cases), and I know this because I am pretty good at reigning them back in when it happens. I dunno.. Just giving my two cents, because I want people to remember that they have some control even when they lose their sense of reality. I think it can help them to bring themselves back, rather than believing everything is out of their control. In that case, they might be more inclined to commit suicide, because they will be more inclined to get completely carried away in their psychosis.

[Jorge]

Sure thing, but to be clear, I think what she describes is not the sensation that occurs in the moment, but her reaction to the gaps in her perception after the fact. From what I've read that seems to be the case for a lot of folks

[Dev]

Sure thing, but to be clear, I think what she describes is not the sensation that occurs in the moment, but her reaction to the gaps in her perception after the fact. From what I've read that seems to be the case for a lot of folks

Yeah, I mean I think these things tend to happen because of mental an emotional exhaustion. It's kind of like shutting down. You don't remember much when you are extremely tired either, but you still won't do anything completely disengaged from your worldview when you are tired. Maybe I am generalizing too much tho. Again just sharing my two cents. Not just trying to be right.