Red Mosquito

Rob wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote: I know next to nothing about Will Smith otherwise, and don't make any claims about his character outside of slapping Chris Rock

I love Will Smith, but he's got some loose screws.

Ms Harmless wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:Reading Will Smith smacking Chris Rock as "resistance" is exactly the sort of pigeon-brain take you end up with when you discount how much money someone makes.

why? there are many issues here about power dynamics beyond rich and poor; I don't stop caring about ableism when a target has money

Because you have abstracted from the material context in order to find an object lesson for your particular interests, one which is not reflected in the situation as a whole in any meaningful way.

"as a whole"?

maybe you need to explain the "whole" situation as my response is coming from a clearly partial faulty extrapolation of the meaning of a joke; I'm clearly biased

Sure, it's pretty easy if we do a little thought experiment. Imagine Chris Rock's joke was not about Jada's medical condition (as you correctly have argued), but was rather about the longstanding rumors that she sleeps around. Imagine she still takes offense, Will charges the stage, slaps Chris, yells at him from the seats, and then wins his award and gives his little teary speech that was mostly about "protecting" the actresses on his film. What about this new situation--and particularly how Smith framed it to the crowd--would have to change from what actually happened in order to make it coherent? Absolutely nothing--because this was not "about" disability in any meaningful way. It was about Will Smith, his wife, his relationship to his wife, and his *insane* ego as a lunatic millionaire. Will Smith did not slap Chris Rock for ableism. He slapped him because Rock made a joke about his wife, and Will Smith has imagined himself to be the kind of rich asshole who gets to say "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth" and "Richard Williams protected his family."

you have no more evidence for your feelings than I do, but I hope you enjoyed typing your thought experiment out; you're essentially asking me "if we can reasonably reduce your claims to complexity down to my claims to simplicity, then wash our hands and be done with it, shouldn't we?", and I'm arguing no, we shouldn't

your argument is "Will Smith is a rich egomaniac and that's where it starts and stops"; and that's fine, but I vehemently disagree

That is not what I am "essentially asking" at all, but you're free to think that ableism has been resisted because this one rich asshole acted like a maniac on TV, if that's what makes you happy.

I laughed, so yes it made me happy for the few seconds it lasted

and yes, I do think that somebody high profile learned that ableist jokes can have a consequence -- it's small, but not insignificant that that happened in the public eye; I know next to nothing about Will Smith otherwise, and don't make any claims about his character outside of slapping Chris Rock (I do know that he and Jada are polyamorous, and so am I, so that's nice)

Did you watch his acceptance speech?

I'm going to now

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm not going to say "Will is crazy" based on any of the evidence given here, sorry

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm not going to say "Will is crazy" based on any of the evidence given here, sorry

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm not going to say "Will is crazy" based on any of the evidence given here, sorry

Would you feel comfortable if he were in the front row and your job was to make the audience laugh?

Ms Harmless wrote:

tree_ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm not going to say "Will is crazy" based on any of the evidence given here, sorry

Would you feel comfortable if he were in the front row and your job was to make the audience laugh?

you're asking a disabled trans girl, someone who is the subject of bad comedy constantly; I wouldn't fear being punched because I would go out of my way to not base my comedy around insulting people; it's easier than you think

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Jorge wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Mickey wrote:Reading Will Smith smacking Chris Rock as "resistance" is exactly the sort of pigeon-brain take you end up with when you discount how much money someone makes.

why? there are many issues here about power dynamics beyond rich and poor; I don't stop caring about ableism when a target has money

Because you have abstracted from the material context in order to find an object lesson for your particular interests, one which is not reflected in the situation as a whole in any meaningful way.

"as a whole"?

maybe you need to explain the "whole" situation as my response is coming from a clearly partial faulty extrapolation of the meaning of a joke; I'm clearly biased

Sure, it's pretty easy if we do a little thought experiment. Imagine Chris Rock's joke was not about Jada's medical condition (as you correctly have argued), but was rather about the longstanding rumors that she sleeps around. Imagine she still takes offense, Will charges the stage, slaps Chris, yells at him from the seats, and then wins his award and gives his little teary speech that was mostly about "protecting" the actresses on his film. What about this new situation--and particularly how Smith framed it to the crowd--would have to change from what actually happened in order to make it coherent? Absolutely nothing--because this was not "about" disability in any meaningful way. It was about Will Smith, his wife, his relationship to his wife, and his *insane* ego as a lunatic millionaire. Will Smith did not slap Chris Rock for ableism. He slapped him because Rock made a joke about his wife, and Will Smith has imagined himself to be the kind of rich asshole who gets to say "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth" and "Richard Williams protected his family."

you have no more evidence for your feelings than I do, but I hope you enjoyed typing your thought experiment out; you're essentially asking me "if we can reasonably reduce your claims to complexity down to my claims to simplicity, then wash our hands and be done with it, shouldn't we?", and I'm arguing no, we shouldn't

your argument is "Will Smith is a rich egomaniac and that's where it starts and stops"; and that's fine, but I vehemently disagree

That is not what I am "essentially asking" at all, but you're free to think that ableism has been resisted because this one rich asshole acted like a maniac on TV, if that's what makes you happy.

I laughed, so yes it made me happy for the few seconds it lasted

and yes, I do think that somebody high profile learned that ableist jokes can have a consequence -- it's small, but not insignificant that that happened in the public eye; I know next to nothing about Will Smith otherwise, and don't make any claims about his character outside of slapping Chris Rock (I do know that he and Jada are polyamorous, and so am I, so that's nice)

Did you watch his acceptance speech?

I'm going to now

How dare you imply that I don't understand the whole context of the event. No I haven't watched Will Smith's acceptance speech from 30 minutes after the slap, where he discusses the slap.

Mickey wrote:No, that's not where we land.