Red Mosquito

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

IlluminEddie wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

IlluminEddie wrote:
I'm not equating quality to sales. I sincerely believe Pearl Jam "fans" prefer this sort of music. Just because a few computer-savy people set up a website where some PJ fans gather and over the years of talking to one another some there form like-minded opinions on the band's worst albums being the best, doesn't make all those other Pearl Jam fans less relevant. Album sales for one band, typically CAN indicate an album's quality when comparing it the SAME band's other albums.

IlluminEddie wrote:For example, sales were declining for the band and hit low points during Binaural and Riot Act. I'm fairly sure they picked up with S/T and Backspacer.

In general, sales are an indicator. Sales trends are also an indicator. And in this case, I think they are pretty decent one because we're not just picking out outliers, we're dealing with sales and trends FOR ONE BAND ALONE. The trend is being broken with PJ's newer stuff. The trend was hitting new lows with Riot Act and Binaural.

VinylGuy wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

stupidmop wrote:if any one sees me reply again slap me.

bluestate wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

That's just not even cool platy... no reason for that shit here

We're jamily gremmies remember?

McParadigm wrote:

IlluminEddie wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

harmless wrote:

BeingeNlightened wrote:

harmless wrote: I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

We'll agree to disagree. I hear the fill as dynamically sloppy, but not out of time. Everyone's ears are different.

"Dynamically sloppy?" I would go with that if all the others were as well. This song isn't like a laid-back reggae jam. Is all of Matt's overly-fast playing live "dynamically sloppy" as well? I find Matt to be a sloppy drummer too much of the time, and my feeling has very little to do with dynamics. There are charming rough-patches and ticks that musicians can have, but I don't think Matt has many of those. He's either metronomic and on-the-button, or pretty bad.

BeingeNlightened wrote:

harmless wrote:

BeingeNlightened wrote:

harmless wrote: I know what he's doing. I play drums too. He's out of time. He comes in late, and pulls back too late, thus flubbing the fill. I'm not even getting into the groove proper, just on about the intro.

We'll agree to disagree. I hear the fill as dynamically sloppy, but not out of time. Everyone's ears are different.

"Dynamically sloppy?" I would go with that if all the others were as well. This song isn't like a laid-back reggae jam. Is all of Matt's overly-fast playing live "dynamically sloppy" as well? I find Matt to be a sloppy drummer too much of the time, and my feeling has very little to do with dynamics. There are charming rough-patches and ticks that musicians can have, but I don't think Matt has many of those. He's either metronomic and on-the-button, or pretty bad.

Well, the discussion was scoped to a single fill on a single song...about as laser focused as you can get. As far as the larger Matt contribution goes, I personally feel like he generally sits behind the beat with this band in an almost lazy style (even when he jacks the tempo inappropriately high a la Evenflow) and frankly, I don't think the work he does in this group gets the command of his focus the way the work with Soundgarden or some of his personal endeavors do. Perhaps it's because the nature of this band is very much more laid back and that comes through in the simplicity of the phrasing particularly in the percussive voice. It's no secret that the band overtly moved away from higher complexity there. Matt's for sure aware of that and fits right in that pocket. Hard to speak to the intelligent design of that from my position, but I can say that the impact of that approach on the listener can vary. It bugs me most of the time, particularly in the live setting.

McParadigm wrote:

IlluminEddie wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

IlluminEddie wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

IlluminEddie wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I don't know why you're equating quality to sales.

Because he's IlluminEddie and he's a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker

I'm dumb because I am stating Backspacer sold more records than some of PJs other albums. Your intelligence is breathtaking.

It sold fewer than Binaural or S/T. It performed far better compared to market than Binaural, however (as in, it's sales were much higher compared to the norm in 2009 than Binaural's were in 2000), and slightly better than S/T (which had more press and buzz on arrival, and sold a larger share of its copies in the initial weeks).

You're leaving out that Backspacer ALREADY sold more than Riot Act.

Even if the point on Binaural is true in actual levels (which I'd like to see), it's probably not true in terms of speed and quantity, which is the real point. The earlier albums have a head's start and were in a psychical market, so it's slightly incomparable. Backspacer is already higher than Riot Act in sales, and (even if it hasn't yet) I think it will pass Binaural with time given it's start. S/T wasn't really mentioned by me at all I don't believe.

And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).

bluestate wrote:
I don't think he's saying that sales and quality equate... I think what he is getting at is that sales for PJ albums alone can be used as a guage for how responsive the PJ fanbase as a whole is responding to each album...

VinylGuy wrote:

IlluminEddie wrote:And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).

I agree with that.
A hits compilation of LB, BS and ST would sell more than RA or Binaural...i dont think that means anything though in terms of quality or pj fans liking more those albums.

IlluminEddie wrote:You're leaving out that Backspacer ALREADY sold more than Riot Act.

Even if the point on Binaural is true in actual levels (which I'd like to see), it's probably not true in terms of speed and quantity, which is the real point. The earlier albums have a head's start and were in a psychical market, so it's slightly incomparable. Backspacer is already higher than Riot Act in sales, and (even if it hasn't yet) I think it will pass Binaural with time given it's start. S/T wasn't really mentioned by me at all I don't believe.

And my original point was a greatest hits of LB and Backspacer would outsell a greatest hits of Riot Act and Binaural. I think this will be true based on Backspacer's positive market reception (which you hinted at) vs Riot Act's (which was ignored) and Binaural's (which you said performed worse than Backspacer).