Red Mosquito

Rob wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Hot take: I think Biden winning would be disastrous, and would mean we have to keep playing out this farce for many more years. There will always be more Trumps to serve as bogeyman, and always more Bidens to feed off of the terrified voters.

Four more years of Trump would do the democrats some good, much the same way that 8 years of Obama and the failures of McCain and Romney did for Republican voters, who successfully revolted against party leaders. Dem voters should admire and be inspired by this incredible feat, but partisanship blinds them.

I was hoping the dems were already there with Bernie, but this year has proved that the dems haven't reached their breaking point yet. They're all too afraid of the other guy to vote for what they really believe in.

Or maybe they don't want to follow the Republican path and end up in the same place. Has to be a better way to change a party. An old man who will sign whatever, maybe?

You will never change a party by voting for the people the party leaders tell you to vote for. And who do you think will be in his ear? It won't be someone who wants change. It will be someone who wants more corporate welfare.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Hot take: I think Biden winning would be disastrous, and would mean we have to keep playing out this farce for many more years. There will always be more Trumps to serve as bogeyman, and always more Bidens to feed off of the terrified voters.

Four more years of Trump would do the democrats some good, much the same way that 8 years of Obama and the failures of McCain and Romney did for Republican voters, who successfully revolted against party leaders. Dem voters should admire and be inspired by this incredible feat, but partisanship blinds them.

I was hoping the dems were already there with Bernie, but this year has proved that the dems haven't reached their breaking point yet. They're all too afraid of the other guy to vote for what they really believe in.

You're close, but I don't think this is the takeaway. The takeaway is that what they (read: establishment dems) want is more in line with Trump than Bernie. Bernie was a much more significant existential threat to their true interests (read: money, preserving the status quo) than Trump ever will be.

I think that's true, but it's not what the average main street dem voter wants. Or am I wrong?

BurtReynolds wrote:

Rob wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Hot take: I think Biden winning would be disastrous, and would mean we have to keep playing out this farce for many more years. There will always be more Trumps to serve as bogeyman, and always more Bidens to feed off of the terrified voters.

Four more years of Trump would do the democrats some good, much the same way that 8 years of Obama and the failures of McCain and Romney did for Republican voters, who successfully revolted against party leaders. Dem voters should admire and be inspired by this incredible feat, but partisanship blinds them.

I was hoping the dems were already there with Bernie, but this year has proved that the dems haven't reached their breaking point yet. They're all too afraid of the other guy to vote for what they really believe in.

Or maybe they don't want to follow the Republican path and end up in the same place. Has to be a better way to change a party. An old man who will sign whatever, maybe?

You will never change a party by voting for the people the party leaders tell you to vote for. And who do you think will be in his ear? It won't be someone who wants change. It will be someone who wants more corporate welfare.

Another somewhat cynical view is that politicians don't care about anything but remaining in power. A country destroyed by corona just isn't gonna tolerate the status quo of the last 2 decades. Things will change regardless.

Bernie lost because 2.7 million more Democratic voters thought Biden was a better choice.

Even if you throw all of Warren's votes to Bernie they still come up short. And the margin goes right back to where it stands now if you then throw Bloomberg's votes to Biden.

But it's easier and feels better to say it's rigged when Gold Digger loses to Smooth and you happen to like Gold Digger better.

cutuphalfdead wrote:Bernie lost because 2.7 million more Democratic voters thought Biden was a better choice.

Even if you throw all of Warren's votes to Bernie they still come up short. And the margin goes right back to where it stands now if you then throw Bloomberg's votes to Biden.

But it's easier and feels better to say it's rigged when Gold Digger loses to Smooth and you happen to like Gold Digger better.

This is wildly reductionistic, you can do better.

cutuphalfdead wrote:Bernie lost because 2.7 million more Democratic voters thought Biden was a better choice.

Even if you throw all of Warren's votes to Bernie they still come up short. And the margin goes right back to where it stands now if you then throw Bloomberg's votes to Biden.

But it's easier and feels better to say it's rigged when Gold Digger loses to Smooth and you happen to like Gold Digger better.

yeah it's exactly that simple, there are absolutely no establishment forces at work in garnering those votes

cutuphalfdead wrote:.

But it's easier and feels better to say it's rigged when Gold Digger loses to Smooth and you happen to like Gold Digger better.

We've found the vote stuffer! Ban him from the tourney!

hi mickey

BurtReynolds wrote:Hot take: I think Biden winning would be disastrous, and would mean we have to keep playing out this farce for many more years. There will always be more Trumps to serve as bogeyman, and always more Bidens to feed off of the terrified voters.

Four more years of Trump would do the democrats some good, much the same way that 8 years of Obama and the failures of McCain and Romney did for Republican voters, who successfully revolted against party leaders. Dem voters should admire and be inspired by this incredible feat, but partisanship blinds them.

I was hoping the dems were already there with Bernie, but this year has proved that the dems haven't reached their breaking point yet. They're all too afraid of the other guy to vote for what they really believe in.

I think this (too!) is overly simplistic. Biden winning could be disastrous insofar as he might offer the illusion of harm reduction while everyone in Brooklyn goes back to brunch and then in four years we have President Tom Cotton, who has all of the competence Trump lacks and is a true believer in clash-of-civs style ideology. But the idea that we need to choose between Biden-->Cotton and Trump-->Warren or whatever is reductionist and ignores the ways in which popular agitation could continue to push Biden to the left and prevent complacency. I think there is a counter-argument (not one I'm making) that the DNC has revealed itself as an irredeemable institution in the eyes of the left, and that not voting is a way to discredit the Democratic Party and to create some space to build an alternate movement/third party. But that wouldn't happen automatically and anyone proposing that needs to be ready to do the actual work of building an alternate party--in other words, it will not mirror the Republican drift towards populism because that drift is more or less compatible with the needs of capital (IOW it only was a revolt against "party leaders" in terms of content and not in terms of form) and the drift towards Bernie is fundamentally not. And this also positions "the dems" as a unified block rather than a heterogeneous group of voters, the fractures in which are pretty stark right now and therefore whose motives cannot be easily ascribed to being scared of their "real beliefs."

cutuphalfdead wrote:hi mickey

Hi Pete, how's it going?

Mickey wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:He's not just an incumbent president though. People fucking HATE this guy. He's unique all on his own in presidential history in how much of a brain dead asshole millions of people think he is.

Democrats, sure

Then Biden's campaign, surrogates, and stakeholders need to incentivize the younger ones to hold their noses and vote for Biden in November.

Fixed that for you!

It’s him or Trump. If they need more than that... god help us

Mickey wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:hi mickey

Hi Pete, how's it going?

not bad, can you believe we're all still posting here?

Bi_3 wrote:

Mickey wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:He's not just an incumbent president though. People fucking HATE this guy. He's unique all on his own in presidential history in how much of a brain dead asshole millions of people think he is.

Democrats, sure

Then Biden's campaign, surrogates, and stakeholders need to incentivize the younger ones to hold their noses and vote for Biden in November.

Fixed that for you!

It’s him or Trump. If they need more than that... god help us

If they don't want to vote for Biden that's currently more of a problem for Biden and his supporters! Weird that you don't get this.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

Mickey wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:hi mickey

Hi Pete, how's it going?

not bad, can you believe we're all still posting here?

Are you trying to give me depression?

Mickey wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

Mickey wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:hi mickey

Hi Pete, how's it going?

not bad, can you believe we're all still posting here?

Are you trying to give me depression?

only a little

I'm glad you guys ponder your existence on RM less often these last few years.

Just imagine the Democratic party ticket in four years after the defeats of Hillary and Biden, AND after four more years of Trump! Trust me fellas, this is what you want.

BurtReynolds wrote:Just imagine the Democratic party ticket in four years after the defeats of Hillary and Biden, AND after four more years of Trump! Trust me fellas, this is what you want.

Good reason to believe that this just means Pete/Kamala 2024 and they only win California.

History: it's dialectical!

Mickey wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Just imagine the Democratic party ticket in four years after the defeats of Hillary and Biden, AND after four more years of Trump! Trust me fellas, this is what you want.

Good reason to believe that this just means Pete/Kamala 2024 and they only win California.

No way. Surely they wouldn't go to that well a third time. If it did happen that way then democrats deserve to perish.