Red Mosquito

Where she ends up in aDwD is amazing. But we didn't need an entire book of sitting around and being a suddenly indecisive, cock-whipped, little baby girl with now will or power to get us there. GRRM spun his wheels WAY too much in that book. He took away everything Dany had earned and turned her into a dipshit, lovelorn, idiot with no leadership ability whatsoever. He completely retconned her. It was easily the most frustrating aspect of the entire series so far.

Maybe reading the fan-approved super edit of Books 4 & 5 somehow helps that feel less like a betrayal. I can't speak to that. But the fact remains that he didn't publish his story that way. As it stands, as the author's intent, the book robs Dany of her personality and power and agency until the final two or three chapters. It's completely shitty.

The show forgoes all of that nonsense and streamlines it. The show handles Dany way better. It's one of the few things the show absolutely fixes from the novels.

When I said feast/dance I was just abbreviating the two. I read them as published, not combined.

She did get pretty cockwhipped there too. You're right about that at least.

cutuphalfdead wrote:When I said feast/dance I was just abbreviating the two. I read them as published, not combined.

No you didn't. Did you? I thought you were reading the... Well, fuck. I guess I'm the asshole. Apologies, friend.

durdencommatyler wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:When I said feast/dance I was just abbreviating the two. I read them as published, not combined.

No you didn't. Did you? I thought you were reading the... Well, fuck. I guess I'm the asshole. Apologies, friend.

I read it combined the last time I did it, this time I went back to reading them separately.

I forgive you.

You know what, I'll trust you. You're a good reader and you've read them much more than I have. I'm really reacting to my first impressions and that was fucking 6 years ago! I'll take your word for it.

No you definitely have a point. I might be over rating the whole story line based on the last few chapters because I read those this week.

But I will never forgive the show for what they did to

Spoiler: show

Barry

.

cutuphalfdead wrote:But I will never forgive the show for what they did to

Spoiler: show

Barry

.

No, no. This is a legit grievance and I'm with you 100% on this.

durdencommatyler wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:But I will never forgive the show for what they did to

Spoiler: show

Barry

.

No, no. This is a legit grievance and I'm with you 100% on this.

He's

Spoiler: show

the greatest living knight in all of Planetos. One of the few from the series that is of the same caliber as the historic greats. He's the modern day Arthur Dayne. Or Gerold Hightower. Or Duncan the Tall. When he stops being Whitebeard and reveals himself to Dany, answering Jorah with "a better knight than you, ser" I just...I can't even...

And he dies in a fucking ambush in the streets of Mereen. That's not how it works. Not even in this story. That's a fucking waste of a character.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:But I will never forgive the show for what they did to

Spoiler: show

Barry

.

No, no. This is a legit grievance and I'm with you 100% on this.

He's

Spoiler: show

the greatest living knight in all of Planetos. One of the few from the series that is of the same caliber as the historic greats. He's the modern day Arthur Dayne. Or Gerold Hightower. Or Duncan the Tall. When he stops being Whitebeard and reveals himself to Dany, answering Jorah with "a better knight than you, ser" I just...I can't even...

And he dies in a fucking ambush in the streets of Mereen. That's not how it works. Not even in this story. That's a fucking waste of a character.

Dude, I totally agree.

I've been trying to let the show be the show and the books be the books. I'm one of those that has been excited to see the show differ because we're dealing with different media and I want there to be differences. There absolutely should be. And there have been cases where the show has improved on the text, I think. Not many, but there are some. How the show handled Berry, though? Absolutely not. It was a goddamn travesty and one of the few times that I've actually gotten upset and rolled my eyes while watching the show. My wife and I both yelled, "NOPE!" when his story unfolded that way on screen. It was so fucking dumb.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just gushing about one of my favorite characters.

Gush away! I want to gush with you!

Spoiler: show

that's what she said

don't stop i'm almost there

cutuphalfdead wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:And to be fair, Mereen is one of the better storylines the show has going. It's just not better than the book. Mostly because of how they handled

Spoiler: show

Barry the Bold and Tyrion

.

I fucking knew you were going to say that. And I don't disagree with how they handles those stories. I'm only talking about Dany.

I'm just wrapping up a feast/dance re read so it's all fresh in my mind. And I think the book handles her conflict between being a fire and blood targ or a tree planting queen really well. She learns one brutal lesson after another about what it means to rule, and more importantly, finally learns that she can't suppress the dragon inside her.

Spoiler: show

That last chapter where the fighting pits open, and Drogon eventually shows up and takes her away, the inner turmoil is just dripping off every line. You can feel the frustration tearing her apart, and it all stems from trying to be what she isn't. Drogon showing and fucking everyone up is just this perfect cathartic release of everything she was trying to push down.

that girl died, chud

durdencommatyler wrote:Where she ends up in aDwD is amazing. But we didn't need an entire book of sitting around and being a suddenly indecisive, cock-whipped, little baby girl with now will or power to get us there. GRRM spun his wheels WAY too much in that book. He took away everything Dany had earned and turned her into a dipshit, lovelorn, idiot with no leadership ability whatsoever. He completely retconned her. It was easily the most frustrating aspect of the entire series so far.

Maybe reading the fan-approved super edit of Books 4 & 5 somehow helps that feel less like a betrayal. I can't speak to that. But the fact remains that he didn't publish his story that way. As it stands, as the author's intent, the book robs Dany of her personality and power and agency until the final two or three chapters. It's completely shitty.

The show forgoes all of that nonsense and streamlines it. The show handles Dany way better. It's one of the few things the show absolutely fixes from the novels.

to be fair, Dany is a very young girl in the books and a young woman in the show

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Where she ends up in aDwD is amazing. But we didn't need an entire book of sitting around and being a suddenly indecisive, cock-whipped, little baby girl with now will or power to get us there. GRRM spun his wheels WAY too much in that book. He took away everything Dany had earned and turned her into a dipshit, lovelorn, idiot with no leadership ability whatsoever. He completely retconned her. It was easily the most frustrating aspect of the entire series so far.

Maybe reading the fan-approved super edit of Books 4 & 5 somehow helps that feel less like a betrayal. I can't speak to that. But the fact remains that he didn't publish his story that way. As it stands, as the author's intent, the book robs Dany of her personality and power and agency until the final two or three chapters. It's completely shitty.

The show forgoes all of that nonsense and streamlines it. The show handles Dany way better. It's one of the few things the show absolutely fixes from the novels.

to be fair, Dany is a very young girl in the books and a young woman in the show

Yeah, but if that's your argument, how do you explain how fucking clearly badass and advanced she is as early as book 2? That's what bothers me about Book 5, the digression. The devolution. She'd already advanced to a certain, specific point. And just because GRRM couldn't figure out how to get from A to B, he totally spun his wheels and went completely against the character he'd created so that he could force something into place. To me, that's just bad writing.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Where she ends up in aDwD is amazing. But we didn't need an entire book of sitting around and being a suddenly indecisive, cock-whipped, little baby girl with now will or power to get us there. GRRM spun his wheels WAY too much in that book. He took away everything Dany had earned and turned her into a dipshit, lovelorn, idiot with no leadership ability whatsoever. He completely retconned her. It was easily the most frustrating aspect of the entire series so far.

Maybe reading the fan-approved super edit of Books 4 & 5 somehow helps that feel less like a betrayal. I can't speak to that. But the fact remains that he didn't publish his story that way. As it stands, as the author's intent, the book robs Dany of her personality and power and agency until the final two or three chapters. It's completely shitty.

The show forgoes all of that nonsense and streamlines it. The show handles Dany way better. It's one of the few things the show absolutely fixes from the novels.

to be fair, Dany is a very young girl in the books and a young woman in the show

Yeah, but if that's your argument, how do you explain how fucking clearly badass and advanced she is as early as book 2? That's what bothers me about Book 5, the digression. The devolution. She'd already advanced to a certain, specific point. And just because GRRM couldn't figure out how to get from A to B, he totally spun his wheels and went completely against the character he'd created so that he could force something into place. To me, that's just bad writing.

wasn't the point of meereen her trial at ruling? i think if anything he was dealing with the fact that this kid, who is smart and means well, is not just naturally good at doing everything. As a realistic human, she deserved to make wrong choices time and again, but as far as we can gather from where the books left off and where the show picks up, she does learn from them.

Yeah I'm not sure how much of a step backwards it was for her in Mereen. She was a badass conquerer up to that point, but she hadn't a chance to learn to be a competent ruler.