Red Mosquito

AndySlash wrote:haven't posted in here in awhile, but i went to rampage and full gear here in minneapolis. i don't think i've watched a full episode of any aew show in the two years or whatever since it has been around, though i did watch the last ppv to see cm punk's return, and have pretty much only read r/squaredcircle/prowrestling.net recaps and video clips to keep up with aew. so i didn't go to these shows as an established aew fan, just as a wrestling fan wanting to see what the new kid in town was like in person and to see cm punk and bryan danielson again. and it was fun! great f'n wrestling! great experience! would do again without question! but it's still very much a wrestling fan's promotion and has yet to find the wrestler(s) or presentation that will carry it to a broader audience and keep it there. i hope it does, though, because i can barely stomach what wwe is doing these days. at heart i am a wwe guy, but these last few years especially have been rough, and these days i don't even watch their shows, either, i just follow recaps and watch an occasional ppv (an aside: the wwe network move to peacock has made me watch even less wwe content than i already was). we've got a wwe raw coming to town here in a couple weeks and i'm barely excited to go to that. and the rebranding of nxt into nxt 2.0 basically sent me the message that they aren't changing anything any time soon. i feel like a wrestling fan stuck in kind of a no-man's land where nothing is truly keeping my attention, and i don't think i am alone there.

What do you think they could or should do to cater to the casual fan? Less matches and more story?

A lot of the AEW storytelling is done in the ring, and wins and losses matter.

But they have also had a long build to the Omega vs Cowboy match. A bloody contract signing, on the last Dynamite as well.

Then you have American Top Team vs The Inner Circle, which is heavy on story elements.

They have brought in highly talented fan favorite wrestlers, as well as building new names.

numbers wrote:Does it have to cultivate the casual fan though? They’ve catered to hardcore wrestling fans thus far and they are already profitable and have a strong tv deal. I’d say keep doing what you’re doing. I don’t think the casual fan really exists anymore, they certainly haven’t watched wwe in about 20 years if they do.

no, it doesn't have to cater to a broader audience, but it is a business and is in their best interest to get their product in the eyes and hands of as many people as possible for as long as possible. and unless you've seen something i haven't, i don't think aew is profitable yet. tony khan has been careful choosing his words when discussing financials, and i think he has even stated fairly recently that as a company overall they are not profitable. i don't think they are in any danger or anything, but i've seen nothing to indicate the company is operating in the black yet.

as for what they could do to broaden their audience, i'll be honest and say i'm not sure! personally, i do like what they are doing, and i think they're doing it well for the most part, and my experience this weekend was very positive (with the exception of numerous fans within our vicinity confirming why there are still certain negative sterotypes of wrestling fans). wrestling-wise, they are certainly a nice antithesis to the match quality of what wwe has been putting out there lately, and most of the quality wwe matches were in nxt at that, which has since been rebranded with new oversight. aew bringing in cm punk and bryan danielson were primary reasons i decided to give going to the aew shows a try. but being at the aew shows this weekend, and the crowds that were a part of it, it was evident to me that the company just isn't there yet in terms of sustainable appeal. it wasn't close to being sold out, and minneapolis is arguably a popular wrestling market. the fans weren't made up of a mix of die hards, casuals, and families out for a good time, it was pretty much all big wrestling fans. granted it was a live show taping and a ppv, and the environment this type of crowd created added excitement that might not be there if there was a larger mix. but wrestling fans, as daniel bryan once said, are fickle. aew is doing well keeping this audience for now, but it's going to be a delicate dance for aew to expand and not alienate its core fanbase, and from what i saw this weekend i do think aew is going to have to expand its appeal if it is going to remain viable long-term, even though i couldn't even guess how they are supposed to do that. in the 90s, it was wcw bringing in hogan, savage, outsiders, et al, and bringing a new edge to their stories and programming that brought more people in. this era doesn't have your hogan and savages to swing the needle, and i'm not sure what can even be considered edgy or progressive on tv anymore. aew can build all the stars they want (hangman's arc to the title might be the best wrestling storytelling in years), but unless these homegrown stars can become more broadly appealing or have other stars bring attention to the homegrown ones it isn't going to matter in the end.

again, i want aew to succeed and be viable, and to be so at the level of wwe. as a wrestling fan tired of what the wwe is doing and how they treat their audience, i've liked pretty much everything i've seen from aew. but they're still growing and it is not a given that they are over the hump when it comes to sustaining their success. keeping up what they're doing now seems to be sensible for the immediate and near future, but that approach will not ensure they remain long term, and what i saw this weekend showed me that they have some ways to go yet to secure that future.

AndySlash wrote:

numbers wrote:Does it have to cultivate the casual fan though? They’ve catered to hardcore wrestling fans thus far and they are already profitable and have a strong tv deal. I’d say keep doing what you’re doing. I don’t think the casual fan really exists anymore, they certainly haven’t watched wwe in about 20 years if they do.

no, it doesn't have to cater to a broader audience, but it is a business and is in their best interest to get their product in the eyes and hands of as many people as possible for as long as possible. and unless you've seen something i haven't, i don't think aew is profitable yet. tony khan has been careful choosing his words when discussing financials, and i think he has even stated fairly recently that as a company overall they are not profitable. i don't think they are in any danger or anything, but i've seen nothing to indicate the company is operating in the black yet.

as for what they could do to broaden their audience, i'll be honest and say i'm not sure! personally, i do like what they are doing, and i think they're doing it well for the most part, and my experience this weekend was very positive (with the exception of numerous fans within our vicinity confirming why there are still certain negative sterotypes of wrestling fans). wrestling-wise, they are certainly a nice antithesis to the match quality of what wwe has been putting out there lately, and most of the quality wwe matches were in nxt at that, which has since been rebranded with new oversight. aew bringing in cm punk and bryan danielson were primary reasons i decided to give going to the aew shows a try. but being at the aew shows this weekend, and the crowds that were a part of it, it was evident to me that the company just isn't there yet in terms of sustainable appeal. it wasn't close to being sold out, and minneapolis is arguably a popular wrestling market. the fans weren't made up of a mix of die hards, casuals, and families out for a good time, it was pretty much all big wrestling fans. granted it was a live show taping and a ppv, and the environment this type of crowd created added excitement that might not be there if there was a larger mix. but wrestling fans, as daniel bryan once said, are fickle. aew is doing well keeping this audience for now, but it's going to be a delicate dance for aew to expand and not alienate its core fanbase, and from what i saw this weekend i do think aew is going to have to expand its appeal if it is going to remain viable long-term, even though i couldn't even guess how they are supposed to do that. in the 90s, it was wcw bringing in hogan, savage, outsiders, et al, and bringing a new edge to their stories and programming that brought more people in. this era doesn't have your hogan and savages to swing the needle, and i'm not sure what can even be considered edgy or progressive on tv anymore. aew can build all the stars they want (hangman's arc to the title might be the best wrestling storytelling in years), but unless these homegrown stars can become more broadly appealing or have other stars bring attention to the homegrown ones it isn't going to matter in the end.

again, i want aew to succeed and be viable, and to be so at the level of wwe. as a wrestling fan tired of what the wwe is doing and how they treat their audience, i've liked pretty much everything i've seen from aew. but they're still growing and it is not a given that they are over the hump when it comes to sustaining their success. keeping up what they're doing now seems to be sensible for the immediate and near future, but that approach will not ensure they remain long term, and what i saw this weekend showed me that they have some ways to go yet to secure that future.

Tony Khan has said that they are currently profitable if you eliminate their investment in the upcoming video game, which I think was like 10mil or something like that.

Wrestling is so niche now I have no idea what they could do.

If you had told me in 2019 when they launched that by 2021 they would have an extended tv deal for Dynamite on TBS, an hour weekly on TNT, quarterly clash of champions style shows on TNT, ppv buy rates about 200k, and legitimately competing with raw and Smackdown in the ratings, I would have been ecstatic.

Not to mention that the majority of this time frame occurred during a global pandemic where they couldn’t run shows with an audience.

I think the reason they’re successful is because the present a product that resonates with people who grew up with the Monday Night Wars. If they keep focusing on great matches with organic stories, they’ll keep drawing in their intended audience. Wrestling is niche and the only demographic they should be actively seeking is the lapsed wrestling fan because it was WWE that made them lapsed

Mecca wrote:I think the reason they’re successful is because the present a product that resonates with people who grew up with the Monday Night Wars. If they keep focusing on great matches with organic stories, they’ll keep drawing in their intended audience. Wrestling is niche and the only demographic they should be actively seeking is the lapsed wrestling fan because it was WWE that made them lapsed

I generally agree. Though more beyond the hardcore and lapsed fans would be nice, I don’t think we’ll see that anytime soon

The show definitely feels like it’s straight out of the Monday wars with these hot crowds every week.

numbers wrote:The show definitely feels like it’s straight out of the Monday wars with these hot crowds every week.

Did you think the crowd was weirdly quiet for awhile during the main event?

I really, really did not want to see Lethal take a L in his debut

I also wanted a Lethal win.

He had some allegations against him in the past, for sexual harassment. Nothing came of it, but I wasn’t sure WWE or AEW would take the chance on him. Still might have prevented them from giving hil the belt early. Hopefully he will be used well.

Anders wrote:I also wanted a Lethal win.

He had some allegations against him in the past, for sexual harassment. Nothing came of it, but I wasn’t sure WWE or AEW would take the chance on him. Still might have prevented them from giving hil the belt early. Hopefully he will be used well.

That wouldn’t make sense to me. Why even hire the guy and debut him on a PPV if that were their plan?

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

Anders wrote:I also wanted a Lethal win.

He had some allegations against him in the past, for sexual harassment. Nothing came of it, but I wasn’t sure WWE or AEW would take the chance on him. Still might have prevented them from giving hil the belt early. Hopefully he will be used well.

That wouldn’t make sense to me. Why even hire the guy and debut him on a PPV if that were their plan?

I don’t know. But every social media post about him, is full of it.

Anders wrote:

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:

Anders wrote:I also wanted a Lethal win.

He had some allegations against him in the past, for sexual harassment. Nothing came of it, but I wasn’t sure WWE or AEW would take the chance on him. Still might have prevented them from giving hil the belt early. Hopefully he will be used well.

That wouldn’t make sense to me. Why even hire the guy and debut him on a PPV if that were their plan?

I don’t know. But every social media post about him, is full of it.

That would just be weird af to me. Especially when they cancelled appearances for an event with that other dude with accusations

Lethal was accused of using his position as an agent in ROH to pressure the female talent to sleep with him. Multiple women asked to not have him agent their matches, and one says that Lethal told her she wasn’t getting booked because she wouldn’t sleep with him. Nothing really came of it, but it the accusations seemed legitimate to me at least.

Lol at teasing a rock appearance for an entire show knowing there will be no rock appearance.

I could listen to MJF n punk go back n forth for an entire show

Agreed. That was excellent.

I watched Ring Of Honor’s last show last night, it was very sad to see. I never really got into ROH heavily but it is undeniably the most influential company of the last 20 years.

numbers wrote:I watched Ring Of Honor’s last show last night, it was very sad to see. I never really got into ROH heavily but it is undeniably the most influential company of the last 20 years.

I never really followed it either, but I bet I would have really enjoyed it considering I generally am a big fan currently of a lot of their alumni.

Reading the recap does it appear the Briscoes will land, or at least have a short term deal with AEW?