Red Mosquito

tragabigzanda wrote: (Haven’t seen Interstellar)

BurtReynolds wrote:Has Joe ever explained why he hated Oppenheimer so much, other than the fact that it had the audacity to release on the same day as Barbie?

BurtReynolds wrote:Has Joe ever explained why he hated Oppenheimer so much, other than the fact that it had the audacity to release on the same day as Barbie?

Jorge wrote:Something about Wikipedia

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:Epilogue I’m not sure if this is part of your reason for disliking Oppenheimer, but what were your thoughts on Nolan’s in-film response to the criticism that his female characters are thinly drawn / highly objectified?

tree_ wrote:what was Nolan's "in-film response"? is it during the credits or something?

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:Epilogue I’m not sure if this is part of your reason for disliking Oppenheimer, but what were your thoughts on Nolan’s in-film response to the criticism that his female characters are thinly drawn / highly objectified?

I haven't seen Nolan's response to that criticism.

In general, I agree with that criticism. The women are poorly drawn and dismissed. And while that certainly makes the movie worse, it's not the only thing about the movie that doesn't work for me. Florence and Emily, are both powerhouses and I think they do amazing work within the sad limitations of the script they're given, btw.

I also agree with the criticism, 100%.

Some reviewers have posited that when Frank O's wife gets frustrated with J. Robert's tendency to forget her name, that was Nolan's way of acknowledging that there would continue to be criticism around this movie's treatment of women, but that in staying faithful to J. Robert's person, he was obligated to treat the women as dispensable as this was how J. Robert saw them...

To that extent, I'm more or less fine with how the movie treats most of the women in his sphere...

But I think it completely dropped the ball on his wife, who deserved to have her fears and frustrations fleshed out. By treating her as similarly dispensable -- even a willing participant -- I think it really undersold some important historical/cultural context, and made both she and her husband more one dimensional than they probably were in real life.

My $.02.

Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:Epilogue I’m not sure if this is part of your reason for disliking Oppenheimer, but what were your thoughts on Nolan’s in-film response to the criticism that his female characters are thinly drawn / highly objectified?

I haven't seen Nolan's response to that criticism.

In general, I agree with that criticism. The women are poorly drawn and dismissed. And while that certainly makes the movie worse, it's not the only thing about the movie that doesn't work for me. Florence and Emily, are both powerhouses and I think they do amazing work within the sad limitations of the script they're given, btw.

I also agree with the criticism, 100%.

Some reviewers have posited that when Frank O's wife gets frustrated with J. Robert's tendency to forget her name, that was Nolan's way of acknowledging that there would continue to be criticism around this movie's treatment of women, but that in staying faithful to J. Robert's person, he was obligated to treat the women as dispensable as this was how J. Robert saw them...

To that extent, I'm more or less fine with how the movie treats most of the women in his sphere...

But I think it completely dropped the ball on his wife, who deserved to have her fears and frustrations fleshed out. By treating her as similarly dispensable -- even a willing participant -- I think it really undersold some important historical/cultural context, and made both she and her husband more one dimensional than they probably were in real life.

My $.02.

I don't buy that critical speculation, personally. Because the movie is the same without the women. So if Nolan were trying to make some point with it, he really missed the mark and it honestly makes the movie much, much worse. I think Nolan is an intelligent filmmaker, so I'm going to assume this wasn't part of his overall perspective.

As far as his wife goes, I totally agree with you. There's a chance Nolan could have gotten away with it if he hadn't included a specific scene in when Oppenheimer tells us how he and his wife are so connected and have been through the fire together. Not showing us that relationship really hurts the movie. It's exposition for exposition's sake. It's part of what I mean when I saw the movie is Wikipedia the movie.

Interesting... I'll have to think on this bold part but at first blush I don't think that's crazy at all.